ubuysa
The BSOD Doctor
Hmmm. Panda in Greek (πάντα) means "always". Are you saying I always take the last item in stock? [emoji848]
Windows 11 TPM 2.0 requirement - thoughts and advice?
- Thread starter Reshi
- Start date
Martinr36
MOST VALUED CONTRIBUTOR
I never knew that
ubuysa
The BSOD Doctor
There's an Asus 14-1 TPM available on amazon.de now if you're quick, I've just cancelled my order. On closer reading of the Windows 11 requirements my i7-6700 is not supported, it's series 8 and above only. No Windows 11 for me then. Time to seriously think about Linux I think....
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SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
Apparently Linus Tech Tips are soon going to release a video on how to properly enable fTPM/TPP so windows properly recognised it, it’s often not as straightforward as just enabling the BIOS setting. Will post when it lands
EdwinK
New member
Much publicity about the TPM requirement states that most computers less than 4 years old should have TPM compatibility ... however mine bought from PCS last year has an Asus Prime Z390-P motherboard which appears perfectly satisfactory for most uses but does not appear to support either firmware TPM or have a header for a TPM module.
Given that until the other day I'd never heard of a TPM I suppose I can hardly complain but I'm feeling a bit less than impressed at the prospect of not being able to run the latest OS on a nearly new PC.
Given that until the other day I'd never heard of a TPM I suppose I can hardly complain but I'm feeling a bit less than impressed at the prospect of not being able to run the latest OS on a nearly new PC.
ubuysa
The BSOD Doctor
Belay that, I've just been messaged to say it's already dispatched. Depending on how the CPU versions end up playing out with Windows 11 I may have a TPM to sell come the Autumn...
Bad news. Looks like Microsoft made a mistake earlier with guidance:
https://www.crn.com/news/applicatio...windows-11-tpm-requirement-is-for-version-2-0
"In the updated documentation, Microsoft has removed the reference to a “hard floor” for Windows 11 that would’ve allowed PCs with TPM 1.2 to still install the new OS.
Now, Microsoft says the compatibility requirement for Windows 11 is, in fact, a TPM 2.0 chip. “This article has been updated to correct the guidance around the TPM requirements for Windows 11,” Microsoft says on the documentation page.
TPM 2.0 was only released in 2019, suggesting that PCs made prior to that year may be incompatible with Windows 11."
I still expect this to be dropped, the backlash in certain quarters for this would hamper Windows 11 adoption, which Microsoft appears to think is important.
IRT to processors though, I would assume any processor that meets the minimum requirements should be fine, so I would say hardware from older Intel and AMD gens should be fine... if their boards support TPM 2.0.
https://www.crn.com/news/applicatio...windows-11-tpm-requirement-is-for-version-2-0
"In the updated documentation, Microsoft has removed the reference to a “hard floor” for Windows 11 that would’ve allowed PCs with TPM 1.2 to still install the new OS.
Now, Microsoft says the compatibility requirement for Windows 11 is, in fact, a TPM 2.0 chip. “This article has been updated to correct the guidance around the TPM requirements for Windows 11,” Microsoft says on the documentation page.
TPM 2.0 was only released in 2019, suggesting that PCs made prior to that year may be incompatible with Windows 11."
I still expect this to be dropped, the backlash in certain quarters for this would hamper Windows 11 adoption, which Microsoft appears to think is important.
IRT to processors though, I would assume any processor that meets the minimum requirements should be fine, so I would say hardware from older Intel and AMD gens should be fine... if their boards support TPM 2.0.
SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
There are a few inconsistencies in that article.
I don't doubt that TPM 2.0 will be the hardfloor, that makes more sense.
But it wasn't released in 2019, it was released in 2014 and Microsoft made it a requirement for their partners to include it in all motherboards as of 2016.
Trusted Computing Group Releases TPM 2.0 Specification for Improved Platform and Device Security | Trusted Computing Group
Trusted Platform Module 2.0 Specification Provides Critical, Vendor Neutral Technology to Respond to Security Demands in Today’s Volatile Threat Landscape Portland, Ore., April 9, 2014 –The Trusted Computing Group (TCG) … Continue reading "Trusted Computing Group Releases TPM 2.0 Specification...
trustedcomputinggroup.org
Trusted Plaform Module (TPM) 2.0
Provides guidance on what an OEM should know about TPM 2.0 and the features that require it
docs.microsoft.com
The 2019 reference may be when Intel made the library open source whereas before then it was proprietary to Intel and licensed as such, but even that was in 2018. The only reference to 2019 I can find is that that is the latest library version of TPM 2.0 Revision 01.59, but that's just applied by a firmware update, doesn't require new hardware.
TPM 2.0 Library | Trusted Computing Group
TCG has released the TPM 2.0 Library specification that provides updates to the previous published TPM main specifications. The changes and enhancements compared to the existing TPM 1.2 include: Support … Continue reading "TPM 2.0 Library"
trustedcomputinggroup.org
I think that source has just scrubbed their info from Wikipedia which states the latest version of TPM 2.0 was released in 2019. It's poor reporting, they haven't done their groundwork.
Trusted Platform Module - Wikipedia
ubuysa
The BSOD Doctor
All this is well and good (about TPM 2.0) but they way that Microsoft have engineered Windows 11 to only operate on TPM 2.0 enabled boards and with pretty recent CPUs, and then announced it overnight, is a massively dumb way to go about this.There are a few inconsistencies in that article.
I don't doubt that TPM 2.0 will be the hardfloor, that makes more sense.
But it wasn't released in 2019, it was released in 2014 and Microsoft made it a requirement for their partners to include it in all motherboards as of 2016.
Trusted Computing Group Releases TPM 2.0 Specification for Improved Platform and Device Security | Trusted Computing Group
Trusted Platform Module 2.0 Specification Provides Critical, Vendor Neutral Technology to Respond to Security Demands in Today’s Volatile Threat Landscape Portland, Ore., April 9, 2014 –The Trusted Computing Group (TCG) … Continue reading "Trusted Computing Group Releases TPM 2.0 Specification...
Trusted Plaform Module (TPM) 2.0
Provides guidance on what an OEM should know about TPM 2.0 and the features that require itdocs.microsoft.com
The 2019 reference may be when Intel made the library open source whereas before then it was proprietary to Intel and licensed as such, but even that was in 2018. The only reference to 2019 I can find is that that is the latest library version of TPM 2.0 Revision 01.59, but that's just applied by a firmware update, doesn't require new hardware.
TPM 2.0 Library | Trusted Computing Group
TCG has released the TPM 2.0 Library specification that provides updates to the previous published TPM main specifications. The changes and enhancements compared to the existing TPM 1.2 include: Support … Continue reading "TPM 2.0 Library"
I think that source has just scrubbed their info from Wikipedia which states the latest version of TPM 2.0 was released in 2019. It's poor reporting, they haven't done their groundwork.
Trusted Platform Module - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
They didn't create Windows 11 yesterday, so it would have made much more sense for them to use the last two or three upgrades to Windows 10 to introduce and announce these upcoming requirements. TPM could have been an optional hardware requirement that was required for newer features perhaps, but which wouldn't have stopped people without a TPM from upgrading Windows 10.
As far as the CPU limit is concerned they could (and certainly should) have made it clear during the last two or thee Windows 10 upgrades that further support for pre-series 8 (Intel) CPUs was being phased out in the fairly near future and that there would come a point where Windows would not install on older CPUs. Again, they could have engineered features that were only available in Windows 10 in later CPUs but still allow those with older CPUs to upgrade.
There would have been no need to mention Windows 11, this could all have been announced for future versions of Windows 10. The market doesn't like surprises and it should have been obvious that Microsoft would need to soft sell this to their customer base well in advance and that introducing a 'hard floor' almost overnight for a new upgrade or new version would be a marketing mistake of biblical proportions. And so it is.
Do Microsoft seriously imagine that businesses are going to replace their entire PC stock in order to run Windows 11? Many (most?) are still struggling to get off Windows 7 onto Windows 10 on the same hardware, telling them their existing hardware won't run Windows 11 at all isn't going to make them rush out and buy new hardware. It is however another very good reason for businesses to look at a Linux platform, with or without a TPM requirement.
This could all have been handled so much better with a great deal more early warning. If, as you say @SpyderTracks, Microsoft made TPM 2.0 a requirement on all motherboards as of 2016 then why does my 2017 PCS build not have it? In addition, why were Microsoft being much more public in advance about the 'hard floor' that would eventually be introduced requiring TPM 2.0? Dumb doesn't begin to cut it.
For decades now Windows has supported older versions of hardware. I still occasionally hear of people succesfully upgrading a Windows XP box to Windows 10 (I think somebody mentioned that on these forums not long ago?). Now though you can't even upgrade a Windows 10 box to Windows 11 unless it was produced in the last week!!
The technology [TPM] might be sensible and I'm sure we'd all see the good sense in it, but the way it's being implemented with a flat out "no you can't" is bonkers. It's marketing madness. In all the years I've been running Windows (and that's from day one) nothing that Microsoft has ever done has made me more likely to switch to Linux than this.
Back in the 1970s the ICL mainframe company ran an operating system called VME. They produced an upgrade to it which offered much better performance and was much more efficient, but it wouldn't run most of the software their customers had running on the older versions. In those days the OS was part of the hardware, you couldn't shop around and you were pretty much obliged to upgrade. That catastrophic error was in large part responsible for the demise of ICL as a company, their customers switched to IBM in droves (because IBM promised to never do that). It seems that Microsoft haven't learned the lessons from their industry's history....
SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
Which motherboard do you have?
ubuysa
The BSOD Doctor
Asus Z170-E. It has a TPM header but it won't support later CPUs (I don't think).
SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
So that will work fine then. It’s just the CPU isn’t officially supported (whatever that means) as in the article I previously posted.
ubuysa
The BSOD Doctor
The CPU is the killer. But if Microsoft made TPM2.0 'a requirement' back in 2016 then it should already be on the board. It should already be on everyone's board.
And thanks to the missleading/incorrect Microsoft announcemnet details I now have a TPM 1.2 coming that is going to be useless.
I had to enable TPM in the BIOS settings but it's there, for anyone who wants to give it try see below
Basically enter BIOS go to Advanced settings. Click PCH-HW I believe was the option, then change the TPM setting from Hardware to Firmware and boom I now have TPM 2.0
Basically enter BIOS go to Advanced settings. Click PCH-HW I believe was the option, then change the TPM setting from Hardware to Firmware and boom I now have TPM 2.0
ubuysa
The BSOD Doctor
It depends on the board.
Of course worth a nosy for anyone who might want to have a look though
ubuysa
The BSOD Doctor
Oh for sure! Thanks for the tip.
It's also worth reading the mobo manual to check that you have a TPM header if you don't have the chip on the board....
SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
I do believe that’s TPM 2.0
I saw that SPI reference come up on a few TPM chips and couldn’t really work out what it meant but it didn’t seem to change that it was TPM.