Why RAM density is important

[loso64]

Linus made a video showcasing why ram density is important.
The video shows up to 20% fps difference on both AMD and Intel systems.
And from other videos we know that especially on AMD ram ranks can have up to 10% fps difference.
Manufacturer really should start listing the amount of ranks and density in the ram dimms. PCS included.

 

[FerrariVie]

Not really the number of ranks (both laptops are using single rank RAM), but rather their density (x8 or x16). Didn't even know this existed until now, but thankfully my Crucial RAM is x8 and the same exact spec of the RAM that Jared used to discover these performance issues with some RAMs:

Linus did his video based on Jared's initial findings

 

[loso64]

No really the number of ranks (both laptops are using single rank RAM), but rather their density (x8 or x16). Didn't even know this existed until now, but thankfully my Crucial RAM is x8 and the same exact spec of the RAM that Jared used to discover these performance issues with some RAMs:

Linus did his video based on Jared's initial findings

density is the ranks as far as i understand it

never mind, you are right. So there is 10% difference in performance based on ranks, and up to 20% difference in performance based on density. who knew RAM can be so important

 

[FerrariVie]

density is the ranks as far as i understand it

never mind, you are right. So there is 10% difference in performance based on ranks, and up to 20% difference in performance based on density. who knew RAM can be so important

Yeah, those are 2 different things.

From what I could see from Jared's video, the difference in density can be minimized if you have a DTR (like my Nova) and can tweak the timings of the RAM, because it seems that this is the real difference of the density: looser timings. But not sure how far the timings could be tweaked on those low-end ram modules, not to mention that only a few people would have a DTR and fewer would know how to mess with RAM timings.

That time where only the brand and clock of the RAM mattered is definitely gone 😅

 

[loso64]

Yeah, those are 2 different things.

From what I could see from Jared's video, the difference in density can be minimized if you have a DTR (like my Nova) and can tweak the timings of the RAM, because it seems that this is the real difference of the density: looser timings. But not sure how far the timings could be tweaked on those low-end ram modules, not to mention that only a few people would have a DTR and fewer would know how to mess with RAM timings.

That time where only the brand and clock of the RAM mattered is definitely gone 😅

indeed, and the manufacturers and sellers of PCs really do need to step up the info provided. PC Specialist included. It is a shame you have to contact support to try to get relevant info.

 

[ubuysa]

indeed, and the manufacturers and sellers of PCs really do need to step up the info provided. PC Specialist included. It is a shame you have to contact support to try to get relevant info.

And I'd agree, knowledge is power and a custom-build customer deserves to be able to get all the necessary details. That said this is far from the first time device details have been hidden....

In the days before SSDs when HDDs reigned supreme the two things people wanted to know about any HDD was the spindle speed and the capacity. Any 500GB 7200rpm HDD would perform as well as any other, right? Wrong.

There were (and still are) two factors of HDD construction that make a big difference to performance but which were (and still are) very difficult to discover. They are; data density and the number of platters.

Data density affects the rate at which data can be read from the disk. Data is read as the disk rotates under the heads, so a higher data density means that you read more data in a given time. This is a case where the higher the density the better the performance.

The number of platters affects the data access time. HDDs have heads that move across the disk platters and this is where most of the access time is lost. Having multiple platters means that the heads don't have to move as far to traverse the platters and we can do an electronic head switch to switch from platter to platter. A 500GB multi-platter HDD will outperform a 500GB single platter drive for example, because the full drive seek time is lower.

Of course, RAM performance has a much bigger impact on performance, especially gaming performance, than an HDD does but my point is that this RAM issue is not the first time that the internal construction of devices has mattered to performance and it's not the first time we've struggled to find out what that internal construction actually is....

 

[AgentCooper]

 

[loso64]

And I'd agree, knowledge is power and a custom-build customer deserves to be able to get all the necessary details. That said this is far from the first time device details have been hidden....

In the days before SSDs when HDDs reigned supreme the two things people wanted to know about any HDD was the spindle speed and the capacity. Any 500GB 7200rpm HDD would perform as well as any other, right? Wrong.

There were (and still are) two factors of HDD construction that make a big difference to performance but which were (and still are) very difficult to discover. They are; data density and the number of platters.

Data density affects the rate at which data can be read from the disk. Data is read as the disk rotates under the heads, so a higher data density means that you read more data in a given time. This is a case where the higher the density the better the performance.

The number of platters affects the data access time. HDDs have heads that move across the disk platters and this is where most of the access time is lost. Having multiple platters means that the heads don't have to move as far to traverse the platters and we can do an electronic head switch to switch from platter to platter. A 500GB multi-platter HDD will outperform a 500GB single platter drive for example, because the full drive seek time is lower.

Of course, RAM performance has a much bigger impact on performance, especially gaming performance, than an HDD does but my point is that this RAM issue is not the first time that the internal construction of devices has mattered to performance and it's not the first time we've struggled to find out what that internal construction actually is....

Fully agreed. Especially for custom build PCs, all the info should be there, good point about the HDD, that should be disclosed too, even tho nowadays less important with SSDs around.

But SSDs have their own pitfalls. Read Write durability, Cache and such.
Hopefully PC Specialist can improve this part more in future.

 

[DarTon]

PCS really needs to be more specific about the RAM they are selling (as do many custom builders). The problem though is they are sourcing from say Corsair who also isn't making it easy to know what you are buying

Corsair's "Tech specs" tab for 2x8GB Vengence LPX 3200MhZ CL16 RAM kit doesn't actually tell you about things like rank , density, original manufacturer etc

VENGEANCE® LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz C16 AMD Ryzen Memory Kit - Black

VENGEANCE LPX memory is designed for high-performance overclocking. The heatspreader is made of pure aluminum for faster heat dissipation, and the eight-layer PCB helps manage heat and provides superior overclocking headroom.

www.corsair.com

In fact it's a pretty miserable amount of detail for a tech specs tab.

 

[loso64]

PCS really needs to be more specific about the RAM they are selling (as do many custom builders). The problem though is they are sourcing from say Corsair who also isn't making it easy to know what you are buying

Corsair's "Tech specs" tab for 2x8GB Vengence LPX 3200MhZ CL16 RAM kit doesn't actually tell you about things like rank , density, original manufacturer etc

VENGEANCE® LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz C16 AMD Ryzen Memory Kit - Black

VENGEANCE LPX memory is designed for high-performance overclocking. The heatspreader is made of pure aluminum for faster heat dissipation, and the eight-layer PCB helps manage heat and provides superior overclocking headroom.

www.corsair.com

In fact it's a pretty miserable amount of detail for a tech specs tab.

yeah, the manufacturers themselves need to be called out too..

 

[FerrariVie]

From what I've seen, Crucial is a bit better with regards to this. However, they're inconsistent and while some modules will have lots of info, like the below:

Some others will be like this and not give you all the info:

 

[ubuysa]

From what I've seen, Crucial is a bit better with regards to this. However, they're inconsistent and while some modules will have lots of info, like the below:
View attachment 27389


Some others will be like this and not give you all the info:
View attachment 27390

And this is the problem really, PCS can't supply this information if their supplier doesn't tell them.

 

[loso64]

And this is the problem really, PCS can't supply this information if their supplier doesn't tell them.

true, but lets not defend PCS, they can definitely do better job with information regard other products. The least they can do is disclose timings on rams for example. Same for some other products.

 

[ubuysa]

true, but lets not defend PCS, they can definitely do better job with information regard other products. The least they can do is disclose timings on rams for example. Same for some other products.

TBH if you feel that strongly about this then you should probably put your thoughts in an email to PCS.

 

[loso64]

TBH if you feel that strongly about this then you should probably put your thoughts in an email to PCS.

i do plan to write them a mail in the end, once the pc arrives