Weird Windows install issue - Rakk is confused!

[SpyderTracks]

Totally agree that we can't talk enough about backups. I also happen to think you have a very robust system that most people could learn from.

In fact any backups that anyone takes, even to an external USB drive they carry around is better than nothing at all

To be honest, I've kind of given up in the battle against encrypting malware - by which I mean they're getting so clever now that all you can really do is try to mitigate the impacts if it happens.

I have a virtual machine now that I use as a sheepdip so anything that I download that might in any way be dodgy (and that even means open source stuff from Github etc) is downloaded to that.

It has no network shares, is logged onto with an account with minimal permissions and is in a DMZ with only ports 80 and 443 open to the world. I can even sniff network packets if I really feel the need.

But that's not to say I don't still occasionally download random stuff

Out of interest, if you're backing up to cloud storage and your PC is infected with Ransomware, how does that work with cloud backups? Would your cloud storage be compromised as well or do they have clever protections in place to prevent that kind of thing? Pretty much all my backup is on cloud storage, except for movies which are on a NAS.

 

[ubuysa]

Out of interest, if you're backing up to cloud storage and your PC is infected with Ransomware, how does that work with cloud backups? Would your cloud storage be compromised as well or do they have clever protections in place to prevent that kind of thing? Pretty much all my backup is on cloud storage, except for movies which are on a NAS.

My understanding is that they can only encrypt files they can reach on the PC where the malware is running (including network shares I think). I don't believe they can encrypt anything you have stored in the cloud because that would require the malware to be running on the cloud server, hopefully they have better defences than we do. Of course, if your files are encrypted before being backed up to the cloud then they will be encrypted in the cloud.

I believe the key to surviving encrypted malware is to have backups somewhere that is not directly accessible from your PC, IMO the cloud meets that requirement.

 

[Oussebon]

The others will know much more I'm sure, but cloud backups can be vulnerable. I remember hearing MS was adding ransomware protection to OneDrive: http://hexus.net/tech/news/software/117062-microsoft-adds-onedrive-office-365-ransomware-protection/ which afaik was rolling out the versioned file history feature enterprise clients had to personal users, covering the last 30 days.

 

[Tony1044]

Ubuysa and Ouusebon are both spot on with what they're saying.

Cloud backups are really only vulnerable where you are synchronising files to the provider. What the likes of dropbox do is delta copies: i.e. they only send the bits of the files that have changed. What happens when the file becomes encrypted of course, is that it changes it entirely so the whole file becomes overwritten.

What my version and onedrive for business do is the same delta-based copy but it makes a backup of the file prior to the changes. That's the versioning. So in theory, you can go back to a point to before the file was encrypted.

The only reason I say in theory is that malware started to appear where it was slowly encrypting for weeks or even months before letting anyone know. The malware was actually decrypting in real time so apart from a bit of slow down which most people don't notice, there was no way to tell.

Their thinking apparently was to infect backups for enough time as to make it too expensive to recover effectively and make victims more likely to pay up.

Malware of this type also tends to create a lot of broadcast traffic on the LAN as it looks for other vulnerable systems (the golden goose being able to get access to a corporate share or just servers and start encrypting there). The more they can encrypt, the greater their odds of a bigger payday.

The versioned based copies also have another benefit - if Word (as an example) decided to corrupt my document and I sync my files, the result would be to copy that to the cloud and overwrite the version there with the corrupted version. In the same vein as recovering from malware, I can go back to my last saved version and recover to that point.

Edit: there is one downside to a cloud backup of course that often gets overlooked - with the likes of OneDrive giving 2TB of storage to paying customers, there's potential for days/weeks of time to re-download everything. But it's still better to have than not, as you can always access individual files directly from there as needed. What I'm less certain about is where vendors provide machine backups in the cloud. Ideally, they should give a portable HDD delivery option as well for this.

 

[SpyderTracks]

My understanding is that they can only encrypt files they can reach on the PC where the malware is running (including network shares I think). I don't believe they can encrypt anything you have stored in the cloud because that would require the malware to be running on the cloud server, hopefully they have better defences than we do. Of course, if your files are encrypted before being backed up to the cloud then they will be encrypted in the cloud.

I believe the key to surviving encrypted malware is to have backups somewhere that is not directly accessible from your PC, IMO the cloud meets that requirement.

The others will know much more I'm sure, but cloud backups can be vulnerable. I remember hearing MS was adding ransomware protection to OneDrive: http://hexus.net/tech/news/software/117062-microsoft-adds-onedrive-office-365-ransomware-protection/ which afaik was rolling out the versioned file history feature enterprise clients had to personal users, covering the last 30 days.

Ah, that all makes sense then, glad MS are on the ball with that.

Most of my stuff is in OneDrive as it goes as I get 1Tb of space with my O365 account, so everything's on there. I have to say, give MS their dues, they're extremely good at preventative protection!

 

[SpyderTracks]

Ubuysa and Ouusebon are both spot on with what they're saying.

Cloud backups are really only vulnerable where you are synchronising files to the provider. What the likes of dropbox do is delta copies: i.e. they only send the bits of the files that have changed. What happens when the file becomes encrypted of course, is that it changes it entirely so the whole file becomes overwritten.

What my version and onedrive for business do is the same delta-based copy but it makes a backup of the file prior to the changes. That's the versioning. So in theory, you can go back to a point to before the file was encrypted.

The only reason I say in theory is that malware started to appear where it was slowly encrypting for weeks or even months before letting anyone know. The malware was actually decrypting in real time so apart from a bit of slow down which most people don't notice, there was no way to tell.

Their thinking apparently was to infect backups for enough time as to make it too expensive to recover effectively and make victims more likely to pay up.

Malware of this type also tends to create a lot of broadcast traffic on the LAN as it looks for other vulnerable systems (the golden goose being able to get access to a corporate share or just servers and start encrypting there). The more they can encrypt, the greater their odds of a bigger payday.

The versioned based copies also have another benefit - if Word (as an example) decided to corrupt my document and I sync my files, the result would be to copy that to the cloud and overwrite the version there with the corrupted version. In the same vein as recovering from malware, I can go back to my last saved version and recover to that point.

Edit: there is one downside to a cloud backup of course that often gets overlooked - with the likes of OneDrive giving 2TB of storage to paying customers, there's potential for days/weeks of time to re-download everything. But it's still better to have than not, as you can always access individual files directly from there as needed. What I'm less certain about is where vendors provide machine backups in the cloud. Ideally, they should give a portable HDD delivery option as well for this.

Major Kudos, that's a superb reply and answers all my questions!!!

 

[Rakk]

Well this thread has turned very useful for me as well - I was going to start a thread on cloud storage cos I've been debating it for ages - I need somewhere to store stuff like my system images for a start - my external HDD started playing silly buggers a while back - it kept disconnecting itself - so recently they've been being stored on my D drive which isn't the best place ever, but is better than not having them anywhere.

Think I've decided on a OneDrive account (already got a freebie one of course - but its only 5GB in size) - seems not too bad value - and would mean I could upgrade my office installation - not sure which version of office I was still on (before the clean install)

 

[SpyderTracks]

Well this thread has turned very useful for me as well - I was going to start a thread on cloud storage cos I've been debating it for ages - I need somewhere to store stuff like my system images for a start - my external HDD started playing silly buggers a while back - it kept disconnecting itself - so recently they've been being stored on my D drive which isn't the best place ever, but is better than not having them anywhere.

Think I've decided on a OneDrive account (already got a freebie one of course - but its only 5GB in size) - seems not too bad value - and would mean I could upgrade my office installation - not sure which version of office I was still on (before the clean install)

O365, although subscription based puts a lot of people off, and I do totally get why, but as a full packaged suite it really is amazing these days, there's so much more to it than just the office environment. I have it hosting my website and email on my own domain, really easy to setup and haven't had any issues with server problems since I've had it (around 3 years now). If you're just looking for simple office apps, then perhaps O365 isn't necessary and a local install package may be more suitable, but if you want an office infrastructure, with a lot for what you pay for, I'd always suggest O365

OneDrive is superb, never had any sync issues or missing files, had my documents backed up there for years.

 

[Tony1044]

O365, although subscription based puts a lot of people off, and I do totally get why, but as a full packaged suite it really is amazing these days, there's so much more to it than just the office environment. I have it hosting my website and email on my own domain, really easy to setup and haven't had any issues with server problems since I've had it (around 3 years now). If you're just looking for simple office apps, then perhaps O365 isn't necessary and a local install package may be more suitable, but if you want an office infrastructure, with a lot for what you pay for, I'd always suggest O365

OneDrive is superb, never had any sync issues or missing files, had my documents backed up there for years.

I second that sentiment. The ability to edit in a browser in a real-time shared environment is also a major plus.

Like you, I host my own mail domain on it - I moved to it after decommissioning my own Exchange server as that was just too much overhead.

£80 a year for 5 users as well is a cracking deal.

https://products.office.com/en-gb/office-365-home

Or a comparison of versions is here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/b/office?activetab=tab:homeorpersonal

Also it's worth remembering that you don't just get the cloud applications - you can install full fat office locally on your machine.

I get mine a slightly different way as I subscribe to the action pack (MAPS). It costs £350 a year for £15,000 worth of licenses and gives £75 per month of Azure credit. I recently had a request to implement something called the CIS security policy. It's an 816 page document!

It took me less than half an hour to stand up a pre-CIS hardened image on Azure and export the policies. Job done. That alone is worth my subscription to me

 

[Rakk]

£80 a year for 5 users as well is a cracking deal.

I'm probably just going to go for the £60 quid one since I am going to be the only user.

 

[Tony1044]

I'm probably just going to go for the £60 quid one since I am going to be the only user.

Don't blame you.

Also, as much as it pains me to say it, keep an eye out at PCWorld - they often sell O365 cheaper than MS (or used to) but generally it was in store only.

 

[Tony1044]

Don't blame you.

Also, as much as it pains me to say it, keep an eye out at PCWorld - they often sell O365 cheaper than MS (or used to) but generally it was in store only.

Having said that... https://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/comp...-1-year-for-1-user-download-22085225-pdt.html £54.99

And the 5 user version https://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/comp...365-home-1-year-for-5-users-10145822-pdt.html £69.99

Also...I didn't know you got 60 minutes of Skype calls a month as well.

EDIT: Hmm... £30 https://www.cdkeys.com/pc/software/microsoft-office-365-personal-1yr-subscription-download-pc-cd-key

 

[SpyderTracks]

Having said that... https://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/comp...-1-year-for-1-user-download-22085225-pdt.html £54.99

And the 5 user version https://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/comp...365-home-1-year-for-5-users-10145822-pdt.html £69.99

Also...I didn't know you got 60 minutes of Skype calls a month as well.

EDIT: Hmm... £30 https://www.cdkeys.com/pc/software/microsoft-office-365-personal-1yr-subscription-download-pc-cd-key

CDKeys although it sounds too good to be true are excellent, I've used them for years for games.

 

[Rakk]

EDIT: Hmm... £30 https://www.cdkeys.com/pc/software/microsoft-office-365-personal-1yr-subscription-download-pc-cd-key

That claims to be out of stock though

CDKeys although it sounds too good to be true are excellent, I've used them for years for games.

I just got Fallout 4 VR from them yesterday - was a about 8 quid cheaper than Steam I think.

 

[Tony1044]

That claims to be out of stock though



I just got Fallout 4 VR from them yesterday - was a about 8 quid cheaper than Steam I think.

Ah my bad - I did not see that! Sorry!

Yeah I've used them quite a bit over the years and as you say, never had any issues at all using their services. I wouldn't have been so ready to recommend them at those savings if not

 

[Tony1044]

If you check out Amazon, it surprises me to find I suspect must be hacked versions of some kind in short order. I won't post any links but a "lifetime" license including lots of misspellings for <£20.

What annoys me about this kind of thing is that people who aren't tech savvy will believe that because it's on Amazon it has a certain level of legitimacy.

 

[Rakk]

If you check out Amazon, it surprises me to find I suspect must be hacked versions of some kind in short order. I won't post any links but a "lifetime" license including lots of misspellings for <£20.

What annoys me about this kind of thing is that people who aren't tech savvy will believe that because it's on Amazon it has a certain level of legitimacy.

Though going through the Microsoft Store on Amazon, it's going for £50.19 which is a tenner cheaper than the Microsoft site and it looks legit - though will be looking at it later to double check.

 

[Oussebon]

I've ended up with pirated MS software off Amazon before, and that was at 'legit' prices :/ 3rd party seller, not from Amazon itself ofc.

 

[Tony1044]

I've ended up with pirated MS software off Amazon before, and that was at 'legit' prices :/ 3rd party seller, not from Amazon itself ofc.

Hope you got a refund?

Worth sticking with PCW really as it's the cheapest (as CDKEYS is out of stock) as well if you go for the digital download.

 

[Rakk]

Well I went through the Microsoft Store at Amazon and got it for 50.19 - whilst there were quite a few negative reviews mostly they were mac users, people who didn't like changes from earlier Office versions or people who were having problems installing the software. After buying it took me directly to the Office site and was all set up quickly - probably helps that I already use an MS account.