Time to upgrade my 17" laptop

[edwardsw]

Hi all,

Before I begin, I’d just like to say I’ve been a lurker on the PCS website & forum for a number of years now and have only just set up an account, I wanted to say what an excellent community this is and your contributions are very much valued.

I’d quite like to run the below by you to gauge your opinion before I finally commit.
I’ve been quite spoilt with a decent HP laptop that has lasted me in excess of 6 years but can no longer keep up with me.

I’m after an all-round good laptop. Fast processor with plenty of RAM.
17” screen and a numpad keyboard are a must.
Basic webcam in the bevel above the screen should be good enough (I remember seeing a laptop on here once where the webcam was at the bottom which I always thought was a bit… unique).

Main use case will be for day-to-day tasks of a “not-so-average” accountant & financial analyst. It must have a reasonable battery life when in low power output mode to cope with several hours of meetings with intermittent charging opportunities. Longer the better but 4hrs+ battery should do the trick. When in the office, it will be connected to (at present) two basic monitors, keyboard and mouse. Currently my home setup is the same but that’s just because there’s been no point in upgrading the monitors – will explore those avenues in due time.

Machine (when plugged in) will be used for some processor-hungry financial modelling and client-side automation. I code mostly in VBA (yeah I’m old school – it works magic) but it throws everything at a single core so processor speed is important. How I dream of the day I can throw those calculations at my graphics card. For the record, I am currently exploring the potential of Python, so please don’t judge me too harshly. I also seem to be outgrowing the 12GB Ram in my current laptop so more will definitely not go amiss.

I tend to work like mad then shut myself away from the world for a solid chunk of time and fully immerse myself into games. Depending on my mood, this could be a racing game, FPS, RTS, Euro Truck Simulator, Tomb Raider, or my favourite being a modded Cities Skylines. Skylines is more escapism than a game, I suppose you could consider it more of a hobby like a virtual trainset. I’ll spend a lot of time paying attention to detail, landscaping, finding the perfect custom asset or making my own that fits the particular aesthetic of a river side development I’m working on for example. Again this is where RAM and graphics are my friend and I’d love to finally be able to play on a higher graphics setting and with game speed turned on rather than paused or super slow as I currently do.

Anyway very sorry for the waffle, but hopefully it gives context.

Here is the spec I’m looking at. I’ve had my eye on a Defiance for quite a while, versions have changed a few times since I started looking so I accept I might now be biased and not fully appreciating alternatives. Also interested in your opinion on Hard Drives, size, speed, storage allocation. I only have one at present, I have picked up from this forum the value of having 2, specifically with regard to making life easier for full re-installs etc. I have no idea what WIFI adapter to select so went with the INTEL® WI-FI 6E AX210 as it seemed newer and I vaguely recall a few years ago that Killer had a few issues with stability?

Also, if allowed may I ask your opinion on the PCS docking Hubs?

TL;DR : Looking for a fast laptop, plenty of RAM, decent graphics, 17” screen, 4hrs+ battery when on low power output.

Many thanks in advance. Again apologies for the essay.

Spoiler: Specs

Chassis & Display
Defiance Series: 17.3" Matte Full HD 144Hz 72% NTSC LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 14 Core Processor 12700H (4.7GHz Turbo)
Memory (RAM)
64GB Corsair 4800MHz SODIMM DDR5 (2 x 32GB)
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® RTX 3080 Ti - 16.0GB GDDR6 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1
1st M.2 SSD Drive
1TB SAMSUNG 990 PRO M.2, PCIe 4.0 NVMe (up to 7450MB/R, 6900MB/W)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
2TB SAMSUNG 990 PRO M.2, PCIe 4.0 NVMe (up to 7450MB/R, 6900MB/W)
AC Adaptor
1 x 230W AC Adaptor
Power Cable
1 x 1.5 Metre Cloverleaf UK Power Cable
Battery
Defiance Series Integrated 6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (80WH)
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card
2 Channel High Definition Audio + MIC/Headphone Jack
Wireless Network Card
GIGABIT LAN & WIRELESS INTEL® Wi-Fi 6E AX210 (2.4 Gbps) + BT 5.0
USB/Thunderbolt Options
1 x THUNDERBOLT 4 PORT + 3 x USB 3.2 PORTS
Keyboard Language
PER-KEY RGB BACKLIT UK KEYBOARD
Operating System
Windows 11 Professional 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
Norton 360 inc. Game Optimizer - Free 90 Day License
Browser
Microsoft® Edge
Keyboard & Mouse
INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
Webcam
INTEGRATED 2.0 MP FULL HD WEBCAM
Warranty
3 Year Gold Warranty (2 Year Collect & Return, 2 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Dead Pixel Guarantee
1 Year Dead Pixel Guarantee Inc. Labour & Carriage Costs
Chassis
Clevo PD70PNT1 (16GB RTX-3080 Ti, i7-12700H, AX201, DDR5, 144Hz N7, Blank KB)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 5 to 7 working days
Price: £3,110.00 including VAT and Delivery

Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/defianceX-17-DDR5/X7Ks0bj7jn/

 

[SpyderTracks]

Hi all,

Before I begin, I’d just like to say I’ve been a lurker on the PCS website & forum for a number of years now and have only just set up an account, I wanted to say what an excellent community this is and your contributions are very much valued.

I’d quite like to run the below by you to gauge your opinion before I finally commit.
I’ve been quite spoilt with a decent HP laptop that has lasted me in excess of 6 years but can no longer keep up with me.

I’m after an all-round good laptop. Fast processor with plenty of RAM.
17” screen and a numpad keyboard are a must.
Basic webcam in the bevel above the screen should be good enough (I remember seeing a laptop on here once where the webcam was at the bottom which I always thought was a bit… unique).

Main use case will be for day-to-day tasks of a “not-so-average” accountant & financial analyst. It must have a reasonable battery life when in low power output mode to cope with several hours of meetings with intermittent charging opportunities. Longer the better but 4hrs+ battery should do the trick. When in the office, it will be connected to (at present) two basic monitors, keyboard and mouse. Currently my home setup is the same but that’s just because there’s been no point in upgrading the monitors – will explore those avenues in due time.

Machine (when plugged in) will be used for some processor-hungry financial modelling and client-side automation. I code mostly in VBA (yeah I’m old school – it works magic) but it throws everything at a single core so processor speed is important. How I dream of the day I can throw those calculations at my graphics card. For the record, I am currently exploring the potential of Python, so please don’t judge me too harshly. I also seem to be outgrowing the 12GB Ram in my current laptop so more will definitely not go amiss.

I tend to work like mad then shut myself away from the world for a solid chunk of time and fully immerse myself into games. Depending on my mood, this could be a racing game, FPS, RTS, Euro Truck Simulator, Tomb Raider, or my favourite being a modded Cities Skylines. Skylines is more escapism than a game, I suppose you could consider it more of a hobby like a virtual trainset. I’ll spend a lot of time paying attention to detail, landscaping, finding the perfect custom asset or making my own that fits the particular aesthetic of a river side development I’m working on for example. Again this is where RAM and graphics are my friend and I’d love to finally be able to play on a higher graphics setting and with game speed turned on rather than paused or super slow as I currently do.

Anyway very sorry for the waffle, but hopefully it gives context.

Here is the spec I’m looking at. I’ve had my eye on a Defiance for quite a while, versions have changed a few times since I started looking so I accept I might now be biased and not fully appreciating alternatives. Also interested in your opinion on Hard Drives, size, speed, storage allocation. I only have one at present, I have picked up from this forum the value of having 2, specifically with regard to making life easier for full re-installs etc. I have no idea what WIFI adapter to select so went with the INTEL® WI-FI 6E AX210 as it seemed newer and I vaguely recall a few years ago that Killer had a few issues with stability?

Also, if allowed may I ask your opinion on the PCS docking Hubs?

TL;DR : Looking for a fast laptop, plenty of RAM, decent graphics, 17” screen, 4hrs+ battery when on low power output.

Many thanks in advance. Again apologies for the essay.

Hiya

Firstly, many thanks for the detail, does it make easier for us to work out your needs, thanks for that.

Secondly, it all looks good to me on the specs side, there's nothing I would change on that defiance build. As I'm sure you're aware with a laptop, you want the fastest GPU you can afford, irrelevant of resolution or refresh rate as it will be the first bottleneck and you won't be able to upgrade it.

The Defiance is a Clevo model which personally I think are superior to the competing TongFangs in build quality and long term reliability, there are a few inconsistencies with the TongFans such as lesser keyboards (failing keys, lettering peeling quite quickly), but at the expense of internal component tier (to a degree, Clevo are now catching up).

The only other thing worth mentioning, is that you're right at the tail end of the current generation, and we're expecting NVidia 4000 series mobile graphics to be announced at CES at the end of January, along with Mobile Intel 13th Gen and possibly some Ryzen 7000 mobile CPU's

AMD Ryzen 7000 mobile series now confirmed to feature Zen4, Zen3 and Zen2 CPUs - VideoCardz.com

AMD Ryzen 5 7530U spotted, confirms Zen3 is also coming to Ryzen 7000 lineup Ryzen 7000U is a mixed bag of different architectures. New series do not always come with the newest architecture. This was somewhat expected, but now there is a confirmation. AMD’s newest 6-core Ryzen 5 7530U has now...

videocardz.com

Raptor Lake mobile CPUs: Intel is allegedly preparing four new 13th gen chips including two previously unknown models

Intel is planning to release the first batch of Raptor Lake mobile CPUs before 2023 rolls around. Leaker @momomo_us believes that the company is working on at least four Raptor Lake-H mobile SKUs, including two processors that are making their maiden appearance.

www.notebookcheck.net

Where we stand on AMD laptop GPU offerings is anyones guess, haven't actually heard much on that but with the desktop cards only just being released on the 13th December, I would have thought there will be an extra wait for them.

 

[edwardsw]

Thanks SpyderTracks,
After reading your links and further reading into subsequent information leaks, this sounds quite an exciting time for NVidia and Intel. As much as it pains me to now say this, I'm now considering waiting a little longer to see what gets announced at CES.

I've read a subsequent leak on videocardz.com about one of the mainstream gaming laptop brands being poised to release Core i7-13700HX & RTX 40 Series so that's reassuring to see its got buy-in from manufaturers. If I am to hold fire, realistically when might we expect Clevo to start releasing builds with RaptorLake and RTX40. - I know that's a pure finger in the air question, but based on previous releases are they fair quick to market? Would we be thinking February? April? Summer?

Likewise the follow up question is with my dayjob hat on, I'm thinking about risk; "how new is too new?"
Is there a probable risk that early builds pairing RaptorLake and RTX 40 will be unstable? I remember reading 30 series had a few teething issues.
If so, am I better waiting a while longer until more stable builds are released?

If the above means I'm now looking at summer of 2023 for a new Laptop, then I think I'll just bite the bullet and grab the Defiance now. It can double up as a space heater for winter!

I'm not really sure how much of that you can help me with to be honest, but I'm interested in your thoughts and bouncing ideas.

Thanks again.

 

[SpyderTracks]

If I am to hold fire, realistically when might we expect Clevo to start releasing builds with RaptorLake and RTX40

Usually announced at CES at end of January with release I'm February or March

There were no issues with 30 series or 40 series GPUs that I'm aware of, what is it you had heard?

There are normally driver issues in the first couple of driver releases on a new architecture, but that's expected

 

[edwardsw]

Thanks Spyder. In which case, I'll look forward to seeing what CES brings. The price point might make my decision easier.

As for the issues:
I may be mistaken but I thought in the early days of 30 Series, users were reporting game crashes and it was thought to be connected with Dynamic Boost 2.0. If it was just drivers needing updates though, that's fair enough. That was a crazy period of time, what with international graphics card/chip shortages and the infamous Cyberpunk flop so I might be getting mixed up.

Edit:
I've done a brief bit of Googling and I may have also been thinking of this: https://wccftech.com/nvidia-officia...ries-crashes-issues-sp-cap-vs-mlcc-groupings/ but not sure that even applied to laptops so never mind.

 

[SpyderTracks]

I may be mistaken but I thought in the early days of 30 Series, users were reporting game crashes and it was thought to be connected with Dynamic Boost 2.0.

Ah, that was on a couple of models that used a cheap array of capacitors, it was a design flaw by nvidia. Totally forgotten about that, you're absolutely right

As a workaround they capped dynamic boost to 2GHz boost clocks as it was when it overclocked higher than that that the crash occured

It was a hardware issue, though, arguably poor design by nvidia, but they would argue it could have been specific to the quality of the caps used

Manufacturers respond to GeForce RTX 3080/3090 crash to desktop issues - VideoCardz.com

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080/3090 graphics cards face Crash To Desktop (CTD) problems The ongoing problems with GeForce RTX 30 series launch are reaching new grounds. From a very limited stock, sponsored videos ahead of independent reviews to actual hardware issues with the very few cards that were...

videocardz.com

 

[edwardsw]

Ah yes, I see, thanks for the info.