Temperature Question

[Forum Man]

I ran the Corsair program iCUE and got the attached dashboard results.
I have no idea what are reasonable temperatures but the 'package' Ryzen 9 temp of 50+ degree C. seems high for a no load situation on the system.
Is it normal?
FM

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AMD Ryzen 9 7900 12 Core CPU (4.0GHz-5.4GHz/76MB CACHE/AM5)
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ASUS® TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS WIFI (AM5, DDR5, PCIe 5.0, Wi-Fi 6E)
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32GB Corsair VENGEANCE RGB DDR5 5600MHz (2 x 16GB)
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[SpyderTracks]

Ryzen does run hot on idle, that does in fact look about right to me, mine in on a vastly overpowered 360mm radiator on a lesser processor with far lower clocks and with Thermal Grizzly Kryosheet (which is nearer to Liquid Metal than paste), and is running around 50c idle and 71c under load.

Yours look spot on for idle temps under air.

I would be surprised though if that cooler could prevent thermal throttling under load though, I'd be doing a Prime95 stress for 10 minutes and then see temps before you end the test.

 

[Forum Man]

Thank you for those comments. I am much relieved!!
FM

 

[SpyderTracks]

Thank you for those comments. I am much relieved!!
FM

Yeah, it's a big change from the usual 35c on Intel, I was surprised as well

 

[TonyCarter]

I agree with what has been said, as mine idles at 48-52ºc with c.10% load (95% of it is from iCUE components, and the LCD screen process takes up 75% of that). Just realised that the FPS of the LCD can be changed, and dropping it from 24FPS to 6FPS halves the CPU usage; and dropping it to 3FPS halves it again, and as I don't think I need to see my CPU/GPU temps updated more than 3 times a second, I'll leave it there - and instantly gain 8% of my CPU capacity back; right where is Cinebench

Just running a background virus scan shoots the load to 18% and 60ºc, but drops back to the idle range as soon as it's completed.

On another point, has your BIOS been reset, or have you manually tweaked your RAM speed, as it's showing 2397.7MHz (aka 4800MHz due to DDR) in the iCUE picture...but you've got 5600MHz in your config, so should be showing c.2800MHz?

 

[Forum Man]

Aaaarrrgghh!!
Sorry, I am out of my depth technically.
I have neither reset the BIOS nor tweaked the RAM speed - I wouldn't know how!! And if I did know, I would be afraid to!!
But now I am worried.
Should I be concerned about the points you make? Is there a conflict in those readings?
Thanks for your interest.
FM

 

[TonyCarter]

If you're happy with the performance, and aren't seeing any issues, then it's not going to do any harm, but it should have been set correctly when PCS built it, as you've paid for 5600MHz and are only getting 4800MHz.

My instructions for doing so are hidden below, so you'll have to make a conscious decision to see them

If you don't feel comfortable, and I'm not judging as I was apprehensive the first time I did it, then don't do it by yourself and give PCS a call to walk you through it (although they can't do it for you as there's no simple 'remote desktop' option at that early in the boot sequence.

@SpyderTracks - if you want to chip in in case I've missed something obvious, then please feel free

Spoiler: Adjusting ASUS TUF X670E-PLUS BIOS RAM Speed

It's not difficult to change it yourself, just a couple of clicks / selection from drop-downs:

• press DEL/F2 to get into BIOS from boot/restart
• press f7 to get into 'advanced mode' if it doesn't default to that
• use the cursor keys to move through the items to check what the [Ai Overclock Tuner] is listed as (auto/manual / EXPO / DOCP I / DOCP II, etc.)

If you just want to check, then go no further, and press 'Esc' key or use the cursor keys to go to [Exit] and simply 'exit without saving'.

If you want to change the setting, then after step 3 above:

• go to the [Ai Overclock Tuner] setting and change it to [EXPO] if you have it or [DOCP I]
• use the cursor keys to go over to the [Exit] tab and select the [Save Changes & Exit] option
• a confirmation box should pup up with the changes you've made, so click OK and the PC should reboot (might take a bit longer than normal as the RAM check may run)

If it doesn't boot with those settings then you'll probably be sent back to the BIOS screen to change the settings back.

Motherboard manual:

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/Socket%20AM5/TUF_GAMING_X670E-PLUS/E20196_TUF_GAMING_X670E_PLUS_UM_WEB.pdf?model=TUF%20GAMING%20X670E-PLUS

BIOS manual:

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/13MANUAL/PRIME_PROART_TUF_GAMING_AMD_AM5_Series_BIOS_EM_WEB_EN.pdf?model=TUF%20GAMING%20X670E-PLUS

 

[SpyderTracks]

I would personally prefer enabling EXPO than DOCP on 600 or higher boards.

 

[TonyCarter]

I would personally prefer enabling EXPO than DOCP on 600 or higher boards.

That's what I originally wrote (and have added it back in), before trying it myself on my PC, and I couldn't find EXPO, so I assume I've not got AMD EXPO-specific RAM?

Edit: just checked and CPU-Z shows 2 JEDEC and 2 XMP profile tables - and I noticed there were 2 profiles available on the BIOS DOCP drop-down, so decided to try the 6600MHz (32/39/39/76) profile over the standard 6400MHz (32/40/40/84) to see how stable it is.

Maybe that's an option for the OP to check what RAM and profiles are available BEFORE going into the scary BIOS!

 

[SpyderTracks]

That's what I originally wrote, before trying it myself on my PC, and I couldn't find EXPO, so I assume I've not got AMD EXPO-specific RAM?

Possibly, yes, you may have Intel RAM

The RAM DIMM needs to have EXPO setting chips on the RAM. On early RAM sets, they were either XMP sticks or EXPO, nowadays they tend to have both profiles on chip

 

[Forum Man]

Wow, an interesting discussion. I follow most of the BIOS setting stuff apart from EXPO and DOCP references.
Some research required there by me.
I may just pass this discussion by the PCS Tech Support people for their view.
I don't want to do anything that might impact the warranty.
I will certainly look to see what options are available in the BIOS, without changing anything.
Thank you both.
FM

 

[Forum Man]

OK, so I discussed this with PCS Tech Support.
Below is what I consider to be a sensible response and hence I plan to take no further action.
When I hear the word 'stability' I back off quickly.
FM

I hope the following helps with understanding the current situation with DDR5 memory.

Due to the high speed difference, manufacturers are working on releasing firmware that will help support the higher speeds without any stability issues. Whilst the memory can be configured to run at max speeds, if the system becomes unstable then it is advised to run them at lower speeds. 4800MHz is the most stable understandably as it is the starting point on the DDR5 range.

As BIOS updates are released they may assist with stability of DDR5 at higher speeds. With that said it is not as clear cut as it seems. This is because some system may be very stable at higher speeds while other struggle at 5200MHz as an example. The combination of the CPU, motherboard and memory kits is so vast, and slight variations in the versions or SKU's may affect this drastically as well.

If your system is currently stable with no stability issue or performance, then I would say it is fine to leave it as it is. However, to test higher speeds, you can slowly increase the speed of RAM and test the system to see if it stable at those speeds. This can be done within the BIOS.



However, to confirm everything is set correctly, it is not necessary to have overclocking ie DOCP/ XMP enabled on the memory sticks.

 

[SpyderTracks]

OK, so I discussed this with PCS Tech Support.
Below is what I consider to be a sensible response and hence I plan to take no further action.
When I hear the word 'stability' I back off quickly.
FM

I hope the following helps with understanding the current situation with DDR5 memory.

Due to the high speed difference, manufacturers are working on releasing firmware that will help support the higher speeds without any stability issues. Whilst the memory can be configured to run at max speeds, if the system becomes unstable then it is advised to run them at lower speeds. 4800MHz is the most stable understandably as it is the starting point on the DDR5 range.

As BIOS updates are released they may assist with stability of DDR5 at higher speeds. With that said it is not as clear cut as it seems. This is because some system may be very stable at higher speeds while other struggle at 5200MHz as an example. The combination of the CPU, motherboard and memory kits is so vast, and slight variations in the versions or SKU's may affect this drastically as well.

If your system is currently stable with no stability issue or performance, then I would say it is fine to leave it as it is. However, to test higher speeds, you can slowly increase the speed of RAM and test the system to see if it stable at those speeds. This can be done within the BIOS.



However, to confirm everything is set correctly, it is not necessary to have overclocking ie DOCP/ XMP enabled on the memory sticks.

It's DDR5600 MHz RAM, that means it's been specifically binned, ie superior silicon used that is confirmed to work at 5600MHz

4800MHz is simply the native speed of the CPU, it's not a solution not to apply a memory overclock simply in case you may find instability, if you find instability, you return it as the system isn't as specified on your order.

By keeping it at 4800MHz you're losing up to 10% performance in most workflows and gaming.

Anything under 6400MHz is completely standard and certainly not considered "High" speeds in anyway, it's over 6400MHz, or 64Gb and higher or have 4 DIMMS populated that instability can occur.

It annoys me that so many professionals take the risk free route rather than advising people correctly.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Just for a bit of simplicity

To be honest, the advice you've been given to me looks exactly like someone pulling of a search result off google, rather than looking at your specific system specs and advising to your specific situation, because none of it applies to you.

You don't need to incrementally increase speeds to test stability, that's just nonsense, you simply apply the correct DOCP / EXPO setting and boot, that's it. The RAM is confirmed to work

IF it's unstable, the first thing you check is your BIOS version, on any new chipset, it takes a few BIOS revisions to improve RAM stability, so early versions are always slightly unstable.

But assuming you're on a relatively recent BIOS, and the RAM is properly seated, it will work. All this nonsense about CPU's 'may not be able to support those speeds' has been massively overhyped by Intel, it's pure garbage and simply a way for them to back out of CPU warranty returns.

 

[Forum Man]

Thank you for those comments. Much appreciated. I'm learning!
Now, what do I do?
I need to learn about DOCP and EXPO and what they mean and which applies to me.
I also need to navigate my way around the BIOS to locate those settings.
When I'm comfortable with all that, I'll give it a shot.
Do I assume that the symptoms of memory instability are BSODs and the like?
FM

 

[SpyderTracks]

Thank you for those comments. Much appreciated. I'm learning!
Now, what do I do?
I need to learn about DOCP and EXPO and what they mean and which applies to me.
I also need to navigate my way around the BIOS to locate those settings.
When I'm comfortable with all that, I'll give it a shot.
Do I assume that the symptoms of memory instability are BSODs and the like?
FM

There's nothing to learn, it's just a drop down selection box. It's not like applying an actual overclock, totally different thing.

Either way, the setting is the same.

The settings Tony posted are exactly right and it has a link to your BIOS manual if you need a visual guide.

Instability would be BSODS or simply failing to post.

If you apply EXPO, the first boot will take about 1 minute, that's totally normal as it's training on the optimal settings for your specific kit of RAM, it should then normalise after that.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Instability would be BSODS or simply failing to post.

In case you were concerned, this can't cause any damage, you can just go into the BIOS and remove the memory overclock if you need to which will make it boot as normal again.

 

[ubuysa]

OK, so I discussed this with PCS Tech Support.
Below is what I consider to be a sensible response and hence I plan to take no further action.
When I hear the word 'stability' I back off quickly.
FM

I hope the following helps with understanding the current situation with DDR5 memory.

Due to the high speed difference, manufacturers are working on releasing firmware that will help support the higher speeds without any stability issues. Whilst the memory can be configured to run at max speeds, if the system becomes unstable then it is advised to run them at lower speeds. 4800MHz is the most stable understandably as it is the starting point on the DDR5 range.

As BIOS updates are released they may assist with stability of DDR5 at higher speeds. With that said it is not as clear cut as it seems. This is because some system may be very stable at higher speeds while other struggle at 5200MHz as an example. The combination of the CPU, motherboard and memory kits is so vast, and slight variations in the versions or SKU's may affect this drastically as well.

If your system is currently stable with no stability issue or performance, then I would say it is fine to leave it as it is. However, to test higher speeds, you can slowly increase the speed of RAM and test the system to see if it stable at those speeds. This can be done within the BIOS.



However, to confirm everything is set correctly, it is not necessary to have overclocking ie DOCP/ XMP enabled on the memory sticks.

I know that @SpyderTracks is not going to agree with me on this because we've been down this road before. What PCS is saying here about stability is exactly what I was talking about elsewhere on these fora regarding the maximum RAM speed that any CPU is guaranteed to support.

If you check the spec for any modern CPU, Intel or AMD, you will see in there a maximum RAM speed specified. I have researched this at length and I am absolutely certain that these specified RAM speeds are the maximums that Intel/AMD will guarantee the CPU will support. It is perfectly true that most CPUs will happily run with RAM speeds higher than these values - but stability is not guaranteed. However, experience shows (as @SpyderTracks rightly points out) that the vast majority of CPUs are stable at speeds much higher than the CPU specified speed.

In short, exceeding the CPU specified RAM speed is going to be fine for the overwhelming majority of users, and PCS's QA tests are designed in part to test this on every build, but for a small percentage of users exceeding this speed may cause instability. That's what PCS are trying to say here, though not very well.

When I'm assisting with a BSOD where the dumps indicate a possible RAM problem my advice is ALWAYS to remove all RAM overclock and run at the native (SPD) speed - for most DDR5 RAM that's 4800MHz as PCS indicated. If the system is stable at that speed then I advise setting the RAM overclock at the maximum guaranteed speeds for the CPU (5200MHz in your case). If the system is stable there then it's actually working as designed. It may however still be possible to increase the RAM overclock, in steps and up to the maximum speed at which the RAM has been tested, until the point of instability is reached. The highest speed you can clock the RAM in that case is one level below the point of instability.

I really don't want to get into another disagreement with @SpyderTracks, I respect his knowledge and experience immeasurably, but this point is one on which I am totally confident.

 

[SpyderTracks]

If you check the spec for any modern CPU, Intel or AMD, you will see in there a maximum RAM speed specified.

This is the point though, it's nothing to do with modern PC's, it's always been the case since Intel first introduced XMP back in 2007 / 2008

They never publicised the warranty disclaimer so people weren't aware of it until intel started rejecting warranty claims after the Spectre / Meltdown performance loss in 2018 because there were droves of datacenter and other big enterprise outfits looking for refunds on lost performance that was nothing to do with them.

And the whole point with an OEM is that they test the system before shipping it, so it's been fully tested, the only way it would stop working is if there was some kind of degredation either with the CPU / RAM or in a very minor amount of cases, the motherboard. And any degradation at that level is due to a faulty component which needs replacing.

But the answer is never to nerf it and just accept crap performance, you'd RMA is because it was sold to you as working under 5600MHz

I respect you massively @ubuysa but you're pandering to Intel marketing rather than known forms of troubleshooting.

Sure if you want to disable it for troubleshooting that makes absolute sense, but if the troubleshooting has been effective and the actual cause addressed, then it should reenable that same memory overclock without issue (so long as BIOS / RAM etc is all within bounds.

If the system is stable there then it's actually working as designed.

That's completely incorrect. It wasn't intel that sold him the system, it was PCS and part of their testing before despatching it was confirming that the memory overclock was stable.

It was ordered with 5600MHz RAM, so PCS in letting it out of the door to the customer have signed off that the RAM is stable at 5600. If it isn't, it's down to them to rectify it.

If you're buying direct from intel and self building, that's a totally different story, although I guarantee you, any worthy store like Amazon / Overclockers / Scan would all without asking simply swap out the processor. No one takes any notice in that dislaimer other than Intel. Even AMD on their own forums regularly say that they would honour an RMA if the chip couldn't handle normal ram overclocks. Basically any value that corresponds to a JEDEC standard speed is considered normal which I think on DDR5 is around 7500MHz or something insane and soon to go up.

Intel are not the ones that need to be upheld in this fight, the customer should be. Intel are rather irrelevant when an OEM is in the frame.

I fully expect Intel to be either sold or bust within 2 years off the back of the 200 series launch, as a direct result of consistent snidery, and very deserved too. Qualcomm will likely take them over and hopefully have a better humanitarian ethos.

 

[SpyderTracks]

You may have noticed I'm quite passionate about this

I do have somewhat of a perceived justice imbalance this evening. Should never post when I'm like this.