Replacement for a 9-year-old PCS Desktop

[MichaelStrauss792]

I need to replace my old PCS desktop, and I think I'm happy with the specs below, but I'd appreciate it if you, with more experience than I, could let me know what you think. It's a workstation PC. I don't do any gaming. My current monitor is a 24" 1920x1200 Dell Ultrasharp with a VGA connector, and I might upgrade it to something slightly larger, like a 27" 2560 x 1440, but I doubt I'd want to go much beyond that, hence the low-spec graphics card. My current 1TB SSD for the OS is full enough that it's probably affecting performance, hence the 2TB SSD specced. I now have 8TB (RAID) plus 4TB single HDDs and they are getting full enough that I have opted to double the HDD space as well. (Tonnes of photos and videos I've taken.) I've also doubled my current 16GB of RAM because I can see a lot of page swapping activity that slows things down, probably because I leave too many browser tabs open all the time.

The M'board has lots of USB connections on it, which is good, but the PC lives under a desk with its back to a wall, so they're only good for permanent connections. I want as quiet a PC as possible, and considered the Fractal Pop Silent case. But PCS only do the TG model and I don't expect the glass side will be as soundproof as a solid one. Besides, there's no point in having a glass side on a PC that can't be seen. However, the Pop case can't accommodate the third HDD. I considered getting a Pop Silent XL from Amazon, but in the end I chose the Define 7 case because of the four USB sockets at the front.

I'm planning to update my NAS to 2.5Gb Ethernet, and that affected my M'board choice, as did wanting WiFi 6E for futureproofing. The extra ethernet socket seemed to be a very inexpensive way of avoiding the need to upgrade my network switch to 2.5Gb.

I know the power supply is oversized, but it ought to be quieter and more efficient than the cheaper ones PCS offer. The PC will be on 24/7 so saving a few watts should pay for the additional cost of the PSU.

I would have specced a BluRay drive, but PCS have run out of stock and I don't want to wait a month for one to arrive. And, actually, I have a BluRay drive in my current PC that I ought to be able to install in place of the DVD easily enough once I take my old PC out of service. Or I could opt for an external drive if doing that swap turns out to be a problem.

Finally, I probably don't need the Pro version of Win 11, but I've been using the Pro version on the old PC so chose it for the new one as well.

Anyway, that is what I was thinking when I specced this PC. If there's anything you can think of that I could change which might help its performance or longevity, I'd be pleased to hear your suggestions. Thanks.

PCSPECIALIST.CO.UK SPECIFICATION

The specification below has been formatted so you can easily copy and paste this to our forums when discussing your specification. Once you've copied the specification, please click here to continue.
Case
FRACTAL DEFINE 7 BLACK QUIET MID-TOWER CASE
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 20-Core Processor i7-14700K (Up to 5.6GHz) 33MB Cache
Motherboard
GIGABYTE Z790 GAMING X AX (LGA1700, DDR5, PCIe 5.0, Wi-Fi 6E)
Memory (RAM)
32GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR5 6000MHz (2 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GT 730 - DVI, HDMI, VGA
1st M.2 SSD Drive
2TB PCS PCIe M.2 SSD (3500 MB/R, 3100 MB/W)
1st Storage Drive
16TB SEAGATE IRONWOLF PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 256MB CACHE
1st Storage Drive
16TB SEAGATE IRONWOLF PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 256MB CACHE
1st Storage Drive
8TB SEAGATE IRONWOLF PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 256MB CACHE
RAID
RAID 1 (MIRRORED VOLUME - 2 x same size & model HDD / SSD)
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Power Supply
CORSAIR 750W RMe SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1.5 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
PCS FrostFlow 100 V3 Series High Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
2.5G ETHERNET PCI-EXPRESS CARD (10/100/1000M/2.5G) (1 x RJ45)
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 11 Professional 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
Norton 360 inc. Game Optimizer - Free 90 Day License
Browser
Google Chrome™
Keyboard & Mouse
LOGITECH® MK270 WIRELESS KEYBOARD & MOUSE COMBO
Warranty
3 Year Platinum Warranty (3 Year Collect & Return, 3 Year Parts, 3 Year labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 6 to 8 working days
Price: £2,633.00 including VAT and Delivery
Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/intel-z790-ddr5-pc/VEP8kEjJgx/

 

[sck451]

When you say it's a workstation PC, what will you actually be doing with it?

Also, there's a few things I don't understand here. Do you have a NAS that's separate to this PC? Why do you need 16TB of RAID 1 hard drives if you have a NAS? What is the extra network card accomplishing and why does it avoid upgrading your switch?

 

[MichaelStrauss792]

@sck451: Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post.

The PC is used for a little of everything -- word processing, spreadsheets, internet browsing, desktop publishing, graphic design, etc., etc. Where the old PC struggles most noticeably seems to be when Excel has a number of spreadsheets open at the same time, when it sometimes goes unresponsive until some of the sheets are closed and reopened. Firefox also goes unresponsive some of the time, and it takes a few minutes before it will do anything at all. (I suspect that's a memory issue and the responding stops while it does a lot of paging out of active tabs. This tends to happen when my task manager shows 90+% of memory in use and after the pause it's back down to 70-80%. If I exit Firefox completely and restart it, memory use usually will drop below 50%.) I don't do a lot of video editing and rendering but, when I do, the lack of CPU processing power is pretty obvious. Some rendering jobs have to be done overnight. That's why I have specced a reasonably high-end CPU. It might not be necessary for much of what I do, but would be useful at least some of the time.

The NAS is separate from the PC and is used mostly for backup. But when doing that there's a lot of data to move, so it would be useful to have the extra speed of the 2.5Gb Ethernet. I want all the RAID storage on the PC so my data is self-contained. I also have a Carbonite (cloud-based backup) subscription that covers only data on the PC itself (i.e. not network drives) so the data has to be on the PC in order to be protected.

There are other PCs in the house that also use the NAS drive. Some of the household printers are network-based and are old enough not to be wifi-enabled, so the current switch connects all the PCs, printers, and internet access. The network speed isn't an issue for any of that. I was thinking I could keep that switch and use the second ethernet port to connect the new PC to the NAS directly and have the benefit of the faster speed on that part of the network. A 2.5Gb switch looks like it would cost £100+, whereas the 2nd ethernet port on the PC would cost less than a tenner, so I thought I'd give it a try.

On a separate point, in looking at some of the specs posted here by others I have realised how inexpensive M.2 SSDs are. (500GB for less than £25.) So I was wondering whether to add one to use as scratch space when video rendering and DVD/BluRay ISO creation. It also might be very useful for housing the Windows swap file, which seems to require an awful lot of reading and writing. Perhaps a SSD isn't the best place for repetitive reading/writing, but wouldn't it be better to wear that out and pay a little to replace it rather than wear out an expensive HDD? I also note that if a small SSD scratch disk fails no valuable data is lost, whereas a HDD failure is a different story.

I hope that clarifies my situation, and I look forward to receiving any further thoughts and questions you might have.

 

[sck451]

@sck451: Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post.

The PC is used for a little of everything -- word processing, spreadsheets, internet browsing, desktop publishing, graphic design, etc., etc. Where the old PC struggles most noticeably seems to be when Excel has a number of spreadsheets open at the same time, when it sometimes goes unresponsive until some of the sheets are closed and reopened. Firefox also goes unresponsive some of the time, and it takes a few minutes before it will do anything at all. (I suspect that's a memory issue and the responding stops while it does a lot of paging out of active tabs. This tends to happen when my task manager shows 90+% of memory in use and after the pause it's back down to 70-80%. If I exit Firefox completely and restart it, memory use usually will drop below 50%.) I don't do a lot of video editing and rendering but, when I do, the lack of CPU processing power is pretty obvious. Some rendering jobs have to be done overnight. That's why I have specced a reasonably high-end CPU. It might not be necessary for much of what I do, but would be useful at least some of the time.

The NAS is separate from the PC and is used mostly for backup. But when doing that there's a lot of data to move, so it would be useful to have the extra speed of the 2.5Gb Ethernet. I want all the RAID storage on the PC so my data is self-contained. I also have a Carbonite (cloud-based backup) subscription that covers only data on the PC itself (i.e. not network drives) so the data has to be on the PC in order to be protected.

There are other PCs in the house that also use the NAS drive. Some of the household printers are network-based and are old enough not to be wifi-enabled, so the current switch connects all the PCs, printers, and internet access. The network speed isn't an issue for any of that. I was thinking I could keep that switch and use the second ethernet port to connect the new PC to the NAS directly and have the benefit of the faster speed on that part of the network. A 2.5Gb switch looks like it would cost £100+, whereas the 2nd ethernet port on the PC would cost less than a tenner, so I thought I'd give it a try.

On a separate point, in looking at some of the specs posted here by others I have realised how inexpensive M.2 SSDs are. (500GB for less than £25.) So I was wondering whether to add one to use as scratch space when video rendering and DVD/BluRay ISO creation. It also might be very useful for housing the Windows swap file, which seems to require an awful lot of reading and writing. Perhaps a SSD isn't the best place for repetitive reading/writing, but wouldn't it be better to wear that out and pay a little to replace it rather than wear out an expensive HDD? I also note that if a small SSD scratch disk fails no valuable data is lost, whereas a HDD failure is a different story.

I hope that clarifies my situation, and I look forward to receiving any further thoughts and questions you might have.

This is a lot of detail! Thanks.

First, we need to address the system's major problem: graphics. The 730 is ewaste, utterly useless. You would be better off running the iGPU since at least it has updated drivers. But if you're doing video editing and rendering (and perhaps graphic design) a decent dedicated graphics card would be a very good shout. It needn't be the most amazing one in the world, but the paltry graphics power in this system is quite simply not enough. Probably a 3060 is the way to go.

As you say, you should also go for much more and faster SSD storage. I'd go for a fast Gen4 SSD as the boot drive and have a second one as my main storage drive for work/projects etc. And maybe a third for scratch purposes. But swap space should go on the fastest SSD, which is probably going to be your boot drive. Way better than paging to a hard drive (*shudders*).

As for data, connecting the NAS directly sounds like a more complicated solution, but I guess it would work. Personally I'd upgrade the switch rather than dealing with two network configurations, but if you're happy doing that I guess it makes sense. But I don't really understand the logic of your setup, especially the RAID 1 drives (given that this is not a backup and is very expensive...). You are very vulnerable to fire, theft, water damage, accidental deletion of files, or any number of other problems that RAID 1 will do nothing to fix. The only thing it offers is zero downtime in the unlikely event of a hard drive failure. I think there are better ways of spending your money!

Finally, the big problem with your build above is cooling. A piddling little air cooler is nowhere near enough to cool a 14700K, especially in a "silent" case. You should go for much, much more cooling power.

Though actually I'd recommend quite a different system, based on AMD instead, and I'll post that in a second in a separate post...

 

[sck451]

Here's what I'd be inclined to look at in your shoes:

Case
FRACTAL DEFINE 7 BLACK QUIET MID-TOWER CASE
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 9 7950X 16 Core CPU (4.5GHz-5.7GHz/80MB CACHE/AM5) Awesome CPU for rendering, with future upgrades possible
Motherboard
ASUS® TUF GAMING B650-PLUS WIFI (AM5, DDR5, PCIe 4.0, Wi-Fi 6)
Memory (RAM)
32GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR5 6000MHz (2 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
12GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 3060 - HDMI, DP, LHR Decent graphics card to add hardware acceleration for video work and graphic design
1st M.2 SSD Drive
512GB SOLIDIGM P44 PRO GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 7000MB/sR, 4700MB/sW) Super fast boot drive
1st M.2 SSD Drive
2TB SOLIDIGM P41+ GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 4125MB/sR, 3325MB/sW) Fast main storage drive
1st Storage Drive
16TB SEAGATE IRONWOLF PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 256MB CACHE Two massive hard drives per your spec (though I'd prefer a much better extenal NAS for this kind of thing...)
1st Storage Drive
16TB SEAGATE IRONWOLF PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 256MB CACHE
Power Supply
CORSAIR 850W RMx SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET Higher quality for not much more cost
Power Cable
1 x 1.5 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead, 1.0mm Core)
Processor Cooling
CORSAIR iCUE H115i ELITE CAPELLIX XT RGB High Performance CPU Cooler Much superior cooling
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
2.5G ETHERNET PCI-EXPRESS CARD (10/100/1000M/2.5G) (1 x RJ45)
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 11 Professional 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [MUP-00005] If your old PC is running Windows 10, you can transfer the licence and save £100ish here
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Microsoft® Edge
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 6 to 8 working days
Price: £2,661.00 including VAT and Delivery
Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/amd-am5-pc/eVuvrzkhuM/

 

[MichaelStrauss792]

Thanks for the additional input.

Firstly, I realise I've never actually addressed the issue of my budget. I don't really have one, other than to say I don't want to spend an excessive amount towards high-end components that I'll not notice any significant benefit from considering the way I use my PC. Inasmuch as it's been 9 years since my last PCS purchase, and I'm hopeful this new one will be used for a similar length of time, the 'per year' cost will be quite reasonable even if I spend a bit more on it than I originally had in mind. At least that's what I tell myself!

I certainly will add a second M.2 SSD, and I'm happy to upgrade to the Solidigm Gen 4 for the better speed for only a few more £. But I don't think it's practical for me to use the second SSD mainly for data storage. As I said earlier, the PC is used for a whole variety of tasks. My data is scattered in many folders spread all around my RAID HDD and the unpredictability of what I need to do means I can't easily identify what data I'll be needing to use next in order to move it onto the SSD. Then I'd have to remember to move it back to the HDD to make space on the SSD for the next batch of data I'd be working on.

For 90+% of the time, I doubt I'd notice any significant advantage of having my data on a SSD instead of a HDD. I do one or two big video editing jobs each year, though, and those would be good candidates for moving the raw clips onto the 2nd SSD for the duration of the project. Once a project is complete I could move the clips and the final rendered files and disc ISOs back to the HDD for longer-term storage. Looking at the folder for the most recent project, there's about 400GB of data there.

I thought my current SSD was 1TB and, upon checking, I see it's only 500GB. But it's 90% full, so to allow room for file growth and still keep it from becoming much more than half-full I'll specify 2TB for the OS SSD. The 2nd SSD might as well be the same size. As I said before, if I'm going to wear out a SSD because of the paging file and scratch activity I'd rather that be an expendable SSD rather than the SSD with the OS, as I'd really rather avoid having to reinstall Windows from scratch. Do I remember correctly that SSDs have a finite life in terms of the number of reads and writes they can do, and they keep track of their usage so that it's possible to see how close they are to being 'used up'? If so, could you point me in the right direction of an appropriate wear-measuring tool?

Thanks for pointing out that I would be able to transfer a Windows 10 licence from my old PC. Unfortunately, my old PC still has the OS it was supplied with 9 years ago, so that's Windows 7. And speaking of legacy equipment, my Dell monitor is of a similar vintage. It still meets my needs, but it has only a VGA socket. That was part of why I chose the 730 graphics card. All of the HDMI to VGA adapters I've found so far are limited to 1920x1080 whereas my monitor is 1920x1200. Since graphics cards are so easy to upgrade, I'm still of a mind to stick with the underpowered 730 for now and upgrade later if I find the graphics performance is disappointing for the work I need to do. As noted above, the video editing I do is only once or twice a year.

With respect to cooling, I'm a bit surprised that the PCS configurator didn't point out the inadequacy of what I asked for, and I'm most grateful that you've brought that to my attention. I see that the TDP of the i7-14700K is 125W at its base frequency and that's all the cooler I specced can deal with. But the TDP tops out at double that when the CPU goes into turbo mode, so I'd have to agree that more cooling is needed. I'm really not keen on liquid cooling, especially as PCS say the radiator for that needs to be mounted on the top or the front of the case. (And the front doesn't really seem to be an option as the front panel needs to be opened to access the DVD/BluRay drive.) So I think I should go for the FrostFlow 200 which can deal with 250W TDP. Except that's out of stock at the moment! That leaves the FrostFlow 150 with its 180W TDP rating. So the question is whether I should accept that my CPU would have to throttle itself back a bit on those rare occasions when it would like to go into max. turbo mode. If those turbo boosts really are only very short-lived, then I might not even notice the CPU being throttled slightly during them. Or is it not that simple, and I'd be risking the CPU overheating and affecting its life? I suppose the sensible thing to do would be to wait until PCS receive their new supplies of FrostFlow 200 coolers. (The current ETA is 22/Dec.) That would delay delivery until after Christmas. I had been hoping to have the new PC by then so I could leave it copying data across from the old PC while doing other non-computerised things at that time, but I suppose that's not really essential. And especially not if taking delivery earlier results in having a machine with inadequate cooling. If PCS shut down between Christmas and New Year, the delay would be more like two weeks, but that would have the advantage that PCS also should have resupplied with internal BluRay drives (the current ETA for those is 2/Jan) and I could get one of those included in my build as well.

I'll stop waffling on now and go set up a revised spec.

 

[MichaelStrauss792]

Here's my updated quote. Changes made...
Upgraded 1st SSD (+£77)
Added 2nd SSD (+£149)
Upgraded cooling (+£13)
Want to upgrade cooling further, to FrostFlow 200, but out-of-stock and can't save that quote.

I did not upgrade the PSU. I'll consider upgrading the graphics card later, but if I go for the 12GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 3060 - HDMI, DP, LHR as recommended by @sck451 above the configurator still says the 750W PSU is more than I need.

Case
FRACTAL DEFINE 7 BLACK QUIET MID-TOWER CASE
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 20-Core Processor i7-14700K (Up to 5.6GHz) 33MB Cache
Motherboard
GIGABYTE Z790 GAMING X AX (LGA1700, DDR5, PCIe 5.0, Wi-Fi 6E)
Memory (RAM)
32GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR5 6000MHz (2 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GT 730 - DVI, HDMI, VGA
1st M.2 SSD Drive
2TB SOLIDIGM P44 PRO GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 7000MB/sR, 6500MB/sW)
2nd M.2 SSD Drive
2TB SOLIDIGM P44 PRO GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 7000MB/sR, 6500MB/sW)
1st Storage Drive
16TB SEAGATE IRONWOLF PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 256MB CACHE
2nd Storage Drive
16TB SEAGATE IRONWOLF PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 256MB CACHE
3rd Storage Drive
8TB SEAGATE IRONWOLF PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 256MB CACHE
RAID
RAID 1 (MIRRORED VOLUME - 2 x same size & model HDD / SSD)
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Power Supply
CORSAIR 750W RMe SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1.5 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
PCS FrostFlow 150 Series High Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
2.5G ETHERNET PCI-EXPRESS CARD (10/100/1000M/2.5G) (1 x RJ45)
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 11 Professional 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
Norton 360 inc. Game Optimizer - Free 90 Day License
Browser
Google Chrome™
Keyboard & Mouse
LOGITECH® MK270 WIRELESS KEYBOARD & MOUSE COMBO
Warranty
3 Year Platinum Warranty (3 Year Collect & Return, 3 Year Parts, 3 Year labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 6 to 8 working days
Welcome Book
PCSpecialist Welcome Book
Logo Branding
PCSpecialist Logo
Price: £2,872.00 including VAT and Delivery
Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/intel-z790-ddr5-pc/hmfZbNSEJe/

 

[MichaelStrauss792]

Here's a Ryzen alternative for your consideration...

The only differences between it and the Intel spec are the CPU and M'board, and the resulting cost is very similar. I've tried to compare the B650 AORUS ELITE AX and the X670 AORUS ELITE AX and can't see any significant difference between them, so I don't see any reason to opt for the more expensive one, though I might be missing something important because of my inexperience. I'm confused a bit by the 7900/7900X/7950X CPU differences, particularly with respect to TDP. The specs of the 7900 and 7900X are slightly different but it doesn't look like the small clock speed difference is enough to explain why the 7900X has a TDP of 170W (230W max.), the same as the 7950X, while the 7900 is showing a TDP of less than half of that -- only 65W (88W max.). This has left me wondering whether I should go for the 7900 and the FrostFlow 150 cooler rather than choosing the 7900X or 7950X and delaying the build until the FrostFlow 200 becomes available. How would the performance of the i7-14700K compare with that of the Ryzens?

Other thoughts I've had...

Graphics -- It appears that I may be able to obtain an adapter that would allow me to use my nice, but old, 24" Dell Ultrasharp monitor with a PC that has a HDMI video output. (The Dell's input connection is a 15-pin VGA socket.) If that's the case, and the integrated graphics of the Ryzen CPUs would perform better than the GT 730 card, then I might as well drop the GT 730 from my spec and save a few £. Would the same apply if I end up going with the Intel option?

RAM -- It appears that the Ryzen CPUs can't take advantage of memory speeds above 5200MHz without overclocking. Inasmuch as I won't be overclocking, should I reduce the RAM spec to 5200MHz? Or is that not worth doing just to save a very few £?

The more I think about this PC purchase, the more I realise how little I know. So I really do appreciate whatever input you can supply.

Case
FRACTAL DEFINE 7 BLACK QUIET MID-TOWER CASE
Promotional Item
Get Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora™ with select AMD products. (C)
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 9 7950X 16 Core CPU (4.5GHz-5.7GHz/80MB CACHE/AM5)
Motherboard
GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX (AM5, DDR5, PCIe 4.0, Wi-Fi 6E)
Memory (RAM)
32GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR5 6000MHz (2 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GT 730 - DVI, HDMI, VGA
1st M.2 SSD Drive
2TB SOLIDIGM P44 PRO GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 7000MB/sR, 6500MB/sW)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
2TB SOLIDIGM P44 PRO GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 7000MB/sR, 6500MB/sW)
1st Storage Drive
16TB SEAGATE IRONWOLF PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 256MB CACHE
1st Storage Drive
16TB SEAGATE IRONWOLF PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 256MB CACHE
1st Storage Drive
8TB SEAGATE IRONWOLF PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 256MB CACHE
RAID
RAID 1 (MIRRORED VOLUME - 2 x same size & model HDD / SSD)
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Power Supply
CORSAIR 750W RMe SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1.5 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
PCS FrostFlow 150 Series High Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
2.5G ETHERNET PCI-EXPRESS CARD (10/100/1000M/2.5G) (1 x RJ45)
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 11 Professional 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [MUP-00005]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
Norton 360 inc. Game Optimizer - Free 90 Day License
Browser
Google Chrome™
Keyboard & Mouse
LOGITECH® MK270 WIRELESS KEYBOARD & MOUSE COMBO
Warranty
3 Year Platinum Warranty (3 Year Collect & Return, 3 Year Parts, 3 Year labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 6 to 8 working days
Welcome Book
PCSpecialist Welcome Book
Price: £2,901.00 including VAT and Delivery
Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/amd-am5-pc/75PBCEa3at/

 

[MichaelStrauss792]

I've made one adjustment to my Ryzen spec... to drop the GT 730 and push the boat out with the 12GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 3060. I'm not convinced I need that much graphics processing power, but if this PC lasts as long as the previous one it'll add only a few £/year.

Other questions... The ones about the M'board, CPU, and RAM mentioned in my previous post still apply. The graphics issue has gone away with the card upgrade, though now I'm wondering whether I ought to include a card support bracket which might reduce a bit of noise and vibration from the RTX 3060.

There's still the general question about whether I'd be better off with the Ryzen or the Intel if all the other specs are as below.

If I don't downgrade the CPU significantly then I'll need to increase the cooling with a FrostFlow 200, and I'll have to discuss with PCS how I can submit my order soon to get into the build queue but make it clear they need to wait for the cooler to arrive before actually building the machine.

Case
FRACTAL DEFINE 7 BLACK QUIET MID-TOWER CASE
Promotional Item
Get Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora™ with select AMD products. (C)
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 9 7950X 16 Core CPU (4.5GHz-5.7GHz/80MB CACHE/AM5)
Motherboard
GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX (AM5, DDR5, PCIe 4.0, Wi-Fi 6E)
Memory (RAM)
32GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR5 6000MHz (2 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
12GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 3060 - HDMI, DP, LHR
1st M.2 SSD Drive
2TB SOLIDIGM P44 PRO GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 7000MB/sR, 6500MB/sW)
2nd M.2 SSD Drive
2TB SOLIDIGM P44 PRO GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 7000MB/sR, 6500MB/sW)
1st Storage Drive
16TB SEAGATE IRONWOLF PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 256MB CACHE
2nd Storage Drive
16TB SEAGATE IRONWOLF PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 256MB CACHE
3rd Storage Drive
8TB SEAGATE IRONWOLF PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 256MB CACHE
RAID
RAID 1 (MIRRORED VOLUME - 2 x same size & model HDD / SSD)
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Power Supply
CORSAIR 750W RMe SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1.5 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
PCS FrostFlow 150 Series High Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
2.5G ETHERNET PCI-EXPRESS CARD (10/100/1000M/2.5G) (1 x RJ45)
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 11 Professional 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [MUP-00005]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
Norton 360 inc. Game Optimizer - Free 90 Day License
Browser
Google Chrome™
Keyboard & Mouse
LOGITECH® MK270 WIRELESS KEYBOARD & MOUSE COMBO
Warranty
3 Year Platinum Warranty (3 Year Collect & Return, 3 Year Parts, 3 Year labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 6 to 8 working days
Welcome Book
PCSpecialist Welcome Book
Price: £3,123.00 including VAT and Delivery
Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/amd-am5-pc/ZJA6hY0GpP/

 

[psychollama]

I spoke to PCS on live chat today and the eta of the frostflow 200 is end of january 24.

 

[MichaelStrauss792]

UGH!!! But I'm surprised that the PCS configurator still is showing an ETA of 22/Dec. I guess they're just behind in updating.

Back to the drawing board.

 

[MichaelStrauss792]

I don't seem to have had any feedback on my last Ryzen spec suggestion and I'd really appreciate getting some, as well as input on the questions I've raised above.

In the meantime, PCS are now saying that their supplies of Ryzen 9 7950X CPUs have run out and they won't have more until the end of the year. So I either delay my order a few more weeks or choose a different CPU. I could step up to the 7950X3D, but I wonder whether that might worsen my CPU cooling problem. In another thread, @SpyderTracks described the 7800X3D as "insanely efficient". If I went with that CPU, would that solve the cooling issue caused by the FrostFlow 200 being unavailable? Or would the drop in CPU performance be so much that I'd regret doing it? And since I'm not a gamer, the 7800X3D probably will have capabilities I wouldn't be using, so would I be better off with a 7900X with more cores? Or would that just aggravate the cooling issue?

For graphics, I suspect the 12GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 3060 is overkill for my usage. So I thought about dropping down to the 8GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 3050, but that has been described in other threads as being a bad choice. So what about the 8GB AMD RADEON RX 6600 or the 6650 XT or the 7600? How does their performance compare to the RTX 3050 or 3060? Or are the Radeon cards better only for gamers? Does the heat generated by the graphics card contribute to the CPU cooling issue?

I'm a bit disappointed by PCS's difficulty in obtaining stock of various bits, but they probably are as well. Whenever I think I'm close to a final spec something becomes unavailable and I have to rethink and/or accept a more delayed delivery. And if I wait for a part to arrive before ordering I'll probably find something else in my spec has become unavailable in the meantime. I need to speak with them about this, and only mention it here in case someone has thoughts about how to deal with this problem.

 

[MichaelStrauss792]

Apologies for posting again, but I'm still hoping to get some further feedback on the questions I've asked in my last few posts above.

I think my biggest problem in choosing my spec is trying to balance performance, cooling needs, and noise. Most of the time, my CPU/GPU needs are low. Does an underutilised high-performance CPU/GPU generate more heat -- and therefore need more cooling and make more noise -- than a lower-spec CPU/GPU doing the same tasks? If I want a quiet PC for the 90+% of the time when it's demanding very little processing power, would I be better off with a less capable PC that I know would be under-specced for the rare times when it needs to use all the processing power it can supply? On those occasions when the system is stressed, such as during video rendering, I accept the cooler would make more noise as it tries to keep the CPU from overheating, and the CPU could also end up throttling itself for the same reason, with the result being the rendering job would take a bit longer than it would with a more capable PC. But if it means the PC would be quieter for the vast majority of the time -- when it isn't stressed -- it would be worth it to me. On the other hand, if it won't make any difference to the noise level in the low-stress situation, I might as well go for the higher-spec options so I'll have the extra processing power available when needed.

That's the dilemma I'm trying to deal with. It also has occurred to me that, since the PC I'm replacing is so old, even a less than top-spec machine bought today will be so much more capable than the old PC that I might not even notice the extra performance I'd get from a higher-spec machine.

I'm probably overworking this problem but, unfortunately, I really don't understand the consequences of some of the choices that need to be made. And since I'm hoping my new PC will last the better part of a decade, I'd really like to get it right. As a result, I'd appreciate any advice anyone here could provide.