Recommendations for CPU cooler

[Tanziebob]

A couple of years ago, I bought two identical computers.

Within a year, the first one had the CPU cooler fail. Unsurprisingly, as there is obviously a problem with these coolers, the second one appears to have also failed.

It is getting sent back to be assessed and repaired and, ideally, I'd like to have something OTHER than a like for like repair - I really don't want another one of these coolers because it just doesn't seem worth it.

I was hoping to get it replaced by just a normal heatsink/fan, but looking at the rest of the PCS site, it doesn't look like they tend to do them -- they're all liquid cooled.

So I'm looking for some recommendations - if I'm able to get them to put something else in, which should I ask for (working on the assumption that, as they have obviously still been using these PCS Frostflow things, that don't appear to be fit for purpose, so I can't rely on PCS giving me reliable advice).

Is there anything in particular I should be looking for? or avoiding?

Case	COOLERMASTER MASTERCASE H500 GAMING CASE Change to: COOLERMASTER MASTERCASE H500 ARGB GAMING CASE
Overclocked CPU	Overclocked Intel® Core™ i7-10700K Eight Core (3.8GHz @ up to 3.8GHz)
OC BIOS FIle
Motherboard	ASUS® TUF Z490-PLUS GAMING (LGA1200, USB 3.2, CrossFireX) - RGB Ready Change to: ASUS® PRIME Z490-P (LGA1200, USB 3.2, CrossFireX) - ARGB Ready
Memory (RAM)	16GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3000MHz (2 x 8GB)
Graphics Card	8GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2070 SUPER - HDMI, 3x DP GeForce - RTX VR Ready!
1st Storage Drive	2TB SEAGATE BARRACUDA SATA-III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 7200RPM, 256MB CACHE
1st M.2 SSD Drive	512GB Intel® H10 NVMe SSD + 32GB Intel® Optane™ (upto 2300MB/sR | 1300MB/sW)
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive	NOT REQUIRED
Power Supply	CORSAIR 650W TXm SERIES™ SEMI-MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable	1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling	PCS FrostFlow 120 Series RGB High Performance Liquid Cooler
Thermal Paste	STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
LED Lighting	50cm RGB LED Strip
Sound Card	ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless Network Card	WIRELESS INTEL® Wi-Fi 6 AX200 2,400Mbps/5GHz, 300Mbps/2.4GHz PCI-E CARD + BT 5.0
USB/Thunderbolt Options	MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS

 

[SpyderTracks]

A couple of years ago, I bought two identical computers.

Within a year, the first one had the CPU cooler fail. Unsurprisingly, as there is obviously a problem with these coolers, the second one appears to have also failed.

It is getting sent back to be assessed and repaired and, ideally, I'd like to have something OTHER than a like for like repair - I really don't want another one of these coolers because it just doesn't seem worth it.

I was hoping to get it replaced by just a normal heatsink/fan, but looking at the rest of the PCS site, it doesn't look like they tend to do them -- they're all liquid cooled.

So I'm looking for some recommendations - if I'm able to get them to put something else in, which should I ask for (working on the assumption that, as they have obviously still been using these PCS Frostflow things, that don't appear to be fit for purpose, so I can't rely on PCS giving me reliable advice).

Is there anything in particular I should be looking for? or avoiding?

Case	COOLERMASTER MASTERCASE H500 GAMING CASE Change to: COOLERMASTER MASTERCASE H500 ARGB GAMING CASE
Overclocked CPU	Overclocked Intel® Core™ i7-10700K Eight Core (3.8GHz @ up to 3.8GHz)
OC BIOS FIle
Motherboard	ASUS® TUF Z490-PLUS GAMING (LGA1200, USB 3.2, CrossFireX) - RGB Ready Change to: ASUS® PRIME Z490-P (LGA1200, USB 3.2, CrossFireX) - ARGB Ready
Memory (RAM)	16GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3000MHz (2 x 8GB)
Graphics Card	8GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2070 SUPER - HDMI, 3x DP GeForce - RTX VR Ready!
1st Storage Drive	2TB SEAGATE BARRACUDA SATA-III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 7200RPM, 256MB CACHE
1st M.2 SSD Drive	512GB Intel® H10 NVMe SSD + 32GB Intel® Optane™ (upto 2300MB/sR | 1300MB/sW)
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive	NOT REQUIRED
Power Supply	CORSAIR 650W TXm SERIES™ SEMI-MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable	1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling	PCS FrostFlow 120 Series RGB High Performance Liquid Cooler
Thermal Paste	STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
LED Lighting	50cm RGB LED Strip
Sound Card	ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless Network Card	WIRELESS INTEL® Wi-Fi 6 AX200 2,400Mbps/5GHz, 300Mbps/2.4GHz PCI-E CARD + BT 5.0
USB/Thunderbolt Options	MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS

As you were told when it last failed here: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/threads/cpu-overheat.79935/#post-587085

That cooler is not appropriate for that CPU, you'd need a minimum of an H100i which is a 240mm radiator.

There's no way that wouldn't have failed, it's just not powerful enough to output the heat generated and will have been working 100% 24/7 which it isn't designed to do.

You could send it to PCS and ask them to upgrade the cooler.

 

[Tanziebob]

I must be going blind .. I can't see anyone saying that PCS sold me a computer with inappropriate parts in it. But anyway.

Just to clarify a little here ... I didn't "build" it myself .. it was bought off the shelf, pre-built by PCS, and sold via PC World. So what you're saying is that I was sold a machine that wasn't fit for purpose.

This is actually a different machine from the one mentioned in the post you linked .. although it is exactly the same spec so, of course, if you're saying they're selling pre-built machines that aren't fit for purpose, then it was inevitable the second would fail too.

Ah .. I have seen that this was recommended then, though "
If the budget affords, I'd go with the H100i Platinum, if not then the Coolermaster 240mm."

Although neither apparently appears to be an option currently .. there is an H100i .. but not Platinum. Can't see any Coolermasters. But perhaps it depends where you look.

 

[Tanziebob]

I just wanted to come here and give an update.

Following the above, and research myself, I actually emailed the PCS complaints department, because as was suggested here and elsewhere, I felt that the issues we'd faced were due to a cooler that wasn't suitable for the build.

I spent some time corresponding with one individual in the complains department who was very helpful and kept me informed at every stage.

He told me that they tested the returned cooler and found it to be faulty. He stated that despite what was said here, the cooler provided was perfectly adequate for the CPU.

"I have also investigated the trade order that your system is attached to, it is a batch of 30 systems, only 2 of which have had CPU cooler issues reported, this confirms to me that despite what the forum member has said, this cooler can cool this system to an acceptable level"

Is what he said.

After being pushed about whether or not the cooler was faulty, he confirmed that it was, but that he couldn't rule out that it had become faulty either during transit to them, or when they were going through their testing procedures.

His solution was to replace the cooler like for like, but add an extra fan to create a "push/pull" of air.

I wasn't keen on this "Heath Robinson" approach, so in the end we agreed that they would fit an H100i Elite Capellix, to both machines, with my paying extra for that to occur. He did offer several other alternatives, the others being Corsair H100x and PCS Frostflow 240.

So I'm out of pocket, and a considerable length of time, plus one machine arrived back to us with the front dented and the other arrived back with the wrong replacement fan at the back of the machine (the new cooler was a larger size, therefore it was placed in a different location - top of the case, requiring a new fan to be fitted at the rear). They agreed to send out a replacement fan, which failed to get dispatched the first time, so required me to chase them up a couple of weeks later - but it did turn up eventually.

Anyway .. the upshot of all that is that the complaints guy agreed that it's a bad idea to buy "off the shelf".

I've learned that

• even if it has a PCS badge on it, if it's "off the shelf" it's actually been built to someone's specifications, which might not necessarily be right for the machine, and it transpires PCS build what they're told.
• that although their complaints department seem to be fairly good to deal with, at the end of the day they're only one department, and still looking at the best interests of PCS, not necessarily the customer, if there's a choice between the two.
• that their repair, build and dispatch processes failed me on multiple occasions, with every single return, and I'd be unlikely to buy from them again. (Previous issues include them "losing" one machine completely for some time, and then sending it back with the case lights broken - sending out a replacement case light that was split, with tape wrapped round the split, before sending out a working strip)

Unfortunately the whole process has left me rather jumpy and with no confidence in the PCS machine's longevity. I've had computers before, from other companies, that have lasted many many years before having any issues - and those would be things like a fan failing or something.
Obviously everyone's experience is different, and some have no doubt had a perfect experience with them. But I can only base my opinion on my own experience. And it hasn't been a good one.

 

[SpyderTracks]

I just wanted to come here and give an update.

Following the above, and research myself, I actually emailed the PCS complaints department, because as was suggested here and elsewhere, I felt that the issues we'd faced were due to a cooler that wasn't suitable for the build.

I spent some time corresponding with one individual in the complains department who was very helpful and kept me informed at every stage.

He told me that they tested the returned cooler and found it to be faulty. He stated that despite what was said here, the cooler provided was perfectly adequate for the CPU.

"I have also investigated the trade order that your system is attached to, it is a batch of 30 systems, only 2 of which have had CPU cooler issues reported, this confirms to me that despite what the forum member has said, this cooler can cool this system to an acceptable level"

Is what he said.

After being pushed about whether or not the cooler was faulty, he confirmed that it was, but that he couldn't rule out that it had become faulty either during transit to them, or when they were going through their testing procedures.

His solution was to replace the cooler like for like, but add an extra fan to create a "push/pull" of air.

I wasn't keen on this "Heath Robinson" approach, so in the end we agreed that they would fit an H100i Elite Capellix, to both machines, with my paying extra for that to occur. He did offer several other alternatives, the others being Corsair H100x and PCS Frostflow 240.

So I'm out of pocket, and a considerable length of time, plus one machine arrived back to us with the front dented and the other arrived back with the wrong replacement fan at the back of the machine (the new cooler was a larger size, therefore it was placed in a different location - top of the case, requiring a new fan to be fitted at the rear). They agreed to send out a replacement fan, which failed to get dispatched the first time, so required me to chase them up a couple of weeks later - but it did turn up eventually.

Anyway .. the upshot of all that is that the complaints guy agreed that it's a bad idea to buy "off the shelf".

I've learned that

• even if it has a PCS badge on it, if it's "off the shelf" it's actually been built to someone's specifications, which might not necessarily be right for the machine, and it transpires PCS build what they're told.
• that although their complaints department seem to be fairly good to deal with, at the end of the day they're only one department, and still looking at the best interests of PCS, not necessarily the customer, if there's a choice between the two.
• that their repair, build and dispatch processes failed me on multiple occasions, with every single return, and I'd be unlikely to buy from them again. (Previous issues include them "losing" one machine completely for some time, and then sending it back with the case lights broken - sending out a replacement case light that was split, with tape wrapped round the split, before sending out a working strip)

Unfortunately the whole process has left me rather jumpy and with no confidence in the PCS machine's longevity. I've had computers before, from other companies, that have lasted many many years before having any issues - and those would be things like a fan failing or something.
Obviously everyone's experience is different, and some have no doubt had a perfect experience with them. But I can only base my opinion on my own experience. And it hasn't been a good one.

Very succinct and thorough summary.

I'm sorry for the issues you've had, doesn't sound like it's been smooth sailing.

I will say that yes, you're correct, PCS will build specifications from customers like PCWorld, and they often undercut critical platform components to maximise profits which in turn affects upgradeability and longevity and even sometimes performance. Unfortunately, in the world of branding and marketing, that's just the way it's done.

For anyone reading this, always get some advice on configuring a spec, it's one thing operating to a budget, but maximising potential without sacrificing essentials is quite an art form, and sometimes for even £50 more you can make a HUGE improvement to a build. It's about maximising value with performance, and that quite often needs some input from those in the know.

A PC is a system. Any system is only as good as it's weakest component. The output performance depends on all components in the build. You need to know how to balance that full parts list so as not to create bottlenecks.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Just to give alternative viewpoints on 10700k with a 120mm radiator (even a premium like a corsair which would be far more efficient than the PCS one)

Can I overclock i7 10700K to max limits with this cooler?

If I buy this cooler will I be able to overclock it it's max limits: https://www2.arctic.ac/liquidfreezer2/liquid-freezer-240-en/

linustechtips.com

The 10700k runs about 200W at max load

Intel Core i7-10700 vs Core i7-10700K Review: Is 65W Comet Lake an Option?

www.anandtech.com

Even the Premium Corsair H80i (which is substantially more efficient than the PCS 120mm which is more likely more in line with the H60i) is only recommended for a max of about 150W, but you'd still never pair it that high as you always want some operational headroom

H80i V2 max TDP?

Hello there, At my work, one of our Workstations seems to be having some thermal throttling problem. We have E5-2679 V4, a 20 core Xeon which produces heat upto 200W TDP. But, may I know what the max that a H80i V2 can hold? Please let me know. Thanks!

linustechtips.com

TDP of H60 and H80v2?

Just curious since I couldn't find anything on the website.

forums.tomshardware.com