RECOIL III - i7-9750h & 2070 RTX : Temps problem
- Thread starter bravel
- Start date
Actually my RTX 2070 isn't overheating (80°C/82°C)... but yeah, the CPU does a lot and this is a problem. Still investigating on my side, please feedback when you got news, especially from PETERKSE after his RMA.
One of the actual fix could be using liquid metal paste, deliding the CPU, but it should be a feature by PCS.
I think I am also out of the 14 days, but there should be a fix to this actual heat, it seems to not be a problem on the same chassis at others manufacturers... Will see in the few days coming if I do ask for refund.
Thanks about all your replies.
One of the actual fix could be using liquid metal paste, deliding the CPU, but it should be a feature by PCS.
I think I am also out of the 14 days, but there should be a fix to this actual heat, it seems to not be a problem on the same chassis at others manufacturers... Will see in the few days coming if I do ask for refund.
Thanks about all your replies.
Will do. ATM no response from PCS. They got my laptop just today. I’ll be not happy with temperatures over 90.C when gaming. To tell the truth i’m kicking my self for going for laptop instead desktop. Always had desktop, 2x from pcs one build by myself.
Oussebon
Multiverse Poster
If it's within 14 days of you receiving it you can still cancel the order for a refund even if there's nothing wrong with the laptop.
debiruman665
Enthusiast
When will people stop being surprised gaming laptops that have the same specs as a gaming pc are hot. Do they look at a high pc with multiple fans/ water cooling and imagine that squashing all that into a fraction of the space somehow breaks the laws of thermal dynamics?
SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
I would entirely agree, acceptable temps even on these hot chips should peak in the early 90's certainly no higher on a laptop. Anything higher doesn't meet specs and should be returned.
debiruman665
Enthusiast
When you have a chip that outperforms the chassis' ability to maintain a temperature or its current draw then the chip will keep increasing its performance until it hits the wall.
I can only speak from my own circumstance of having a 9900k inside a laptop. I did my research there is no laptop on the market that doesn't have the 9900k peaking at 100C at full load.
If you want lower temps you need to downclock the processor by either using the power setting and setting the max processor state, or using XTU if you have an unlocked chip. The game wont even notice. The problem is the chips have a workload that appears infinite whenever playing a game. If the chip isn't working at full capacity the turbo boost will try and increase the clock speed. If the processors could run at 10Ghz in order to squeeze 2 more fps It would attempt to do so.
Processors are quite greedy for performance, especially when gaming.
TLDR; processors that are pushing the limits of what a laptop chassis can accommodate will always attempt to increase performance until it hits a throttle. To prevent this, place the limits manually to what you find is acceptable.
I can only speak from my own circumstance of having a 9900k inside a laptop. I did my research there is no laptop on the market that doesn't have the 9900k peaking at 100C at full load.
If you want lower temps you need to downclock the processor by either using the power setting and setting the max processor state, or using XTU if you have an unlocked chip. The game wont even notice. The problem is the chips have a workload that appears infinite whenever playing a game. If the chip isn't working at full capacity the turbo boost will try and increase the clock speed. If the processors could run at 10Ghz in order to squeeze 2 more fps It would attempt to do so.
Processors are quite greedy for performance, especially when gaming.
TLDR; processors that are pushing the limits of what a laptop chassis can accommodate will always attempt to increase performance until it hits a throttle. To prevent this, place the limits manually to what you find is acceptable.
SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
That’s like comparing apples and oranges though isn’t it? You’re referring to desktop processors and these guys are referring to mobile ones. Completely different kettle of fish.
Oussebon
Multiverse Poster
As above, you can't compare a 9900k to an 8750h/9750h.
The mobile CPUs have half the TDP, and throttle frequencies to stay within that, depending how the laptop maker has implemented it, and how the chassis cools, etc. Laptop GPUs are also lower power than their desktop counterparts.
There's absolutely some merit to pointing out that Intel have been adding more cores and upping frequencies to their mobile CPUs without increasing TDP, or making big advances in the architecture. So finding that a similar chassis to one that held a 6700HQ has more of an issue with temps once you put a 9750H in it isn't too surprising.
But temps in the high 90s under gaming loads, isn't okay, especially in hardware that is manifestly different to desktop components.
The mobile CPUs have half the TDP, and throttle frequencies to stay within that, depending how the laptop maker has implemented it, and how the chassis cools, etc. Laptop GPUs are also lower power than their desktop counterparts.
There's absolutely some merit to pointing out that Intel have been adding more cores and upping frequencies to their mobile CPUs without increasing TDP, or making big advances in the architecture. So finding that a similar chassis to one that held a 6700HQ has more of an issue with temps once you put a 9750H in it isn't too surprising.
But temps in the high 90s under gaming loads, isn't okay, especially in hardware that is manifestly different to desktop components.
UPDATE
Got my Recoil back on friday. I don't even know what to say.
| Fault Report |
|---|
| After I received your system I confirmed the issue you have been experiencing. I was able to reduce the CPU temperatures by re-applying some high grade thermal paste and adjusting some of the system settings to better tune the CPU. After which I was able to stress test the system with lower CPU temperatures and with no further thermal throttling on the CPU. I gave your system a check over to make sure everything was working correctly, once I was satisfied that this was the case I loaded a series of stress tests onto the system and left them running overnight. I checked your system again this morning and it had passed the tests without issue. It was then cross-checked by a second technician to confirm my results. I am satisfied that your system is running normally again and it can be returned to you. We're very sorry that your computer had to be returned to us. We hope you have no further problems. |
Got my Recoil back on friday. I don't even know what to say.
Hi Peterkse,
I have spoken with our management and the technicians on your behalf, as you are not the only customer to be concerned about the high temperatures. Or official statement in regard to the Recoil Laptop is as follows:
It is usual for this chassis to run at a higher temp as a trade-off to achieve a powerful spec and thin design. Anything up to 100C CPU temp is acceptable and will not reduce the lifespan of the laptop. This laptop features a slim profile, a high specification and meets all of the thermal requirements for heat dissipation. However, due to the slim design, it will not as efficient at removing heat when compared the thicker chassis which have larger fans and heatsinks, and may, therefore, run hotter than some of our other high-performance models.
Have a great Monday,
Shep
I have spoken with our management and the technicians on your behalf, as you are not the only customer to be concerned about the high temperatures. Or official statement in regard to the Recoil Laptop is as follows:
It is usual for this chassis to run at a higher temp as a trade-off to achieve a powerful spec and thin design. Anything up to 100C CPU temp is acceptable and will not reduce the lifespan of the laptop. This laptop features a slim profile, a high specification and meets all of the thermal requirements for heat dissipation. However, due to the slim design, it will not as efficient at removing heat when compared the thicker chassis which have larger fans and heatsinks, and may, therefore, run hotter than some of our other high-performance models.
Have a great Monday,
Shep
SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
Hi Shep
We don't have any other users on the Recoil chassis with temps like these, this is not a normal issue, and as it appears the high temps are coming from 1 core only, it would suggest a paste issue imho?
Again, this shouldn't have passed QC.
SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
The only laptop cpu that would make temps like these slightly justifiable would be the 9900k in the octane, but no mobile processor should be hitting 100c, especially not on this chassis which has the best cooling of the lot.
A report and explanation surrounding the higher and higher temperatures we are seeing with Intel laptops.
With the last few generations of Intel laptops we have received we have been getting more and more customer complaints surrounding the temperatures of the CPU’s. These complaints have even led to the removal of certain products from our product line-up (P950).
The cause
There are two main causes as to why this issue is becoming more and more apparent with each new product cycle.
The first is the industry trend to try and fit the most powerful hardware into the slimmest of chassis. The smaller chassis’ of most modern laptops leave little room for large, effective cooling solutions to keep the newer laptop CPU’s in check. This had led to some instances where the chassis itself is partly being used as a cooling aid. With some thinner chassis being made out of metal we are seeing that heat being transferred to the chassis itself which makes certain chassis (such as the P9xx series by Clevo and ID-Pxx series by TongFang) heat up significantly during use.
Tests on the TongFang chassis revealed temperatures of around 40-45°C in the normal places you would rest your hands and up to 55°C near the exhaust.
The second is Intel’s focus on the Turbo boost technology in laptop CPU’s. This is how we are seeing massive variations in the rated base and boost clocks of these new CPU’s (i7-9750H 2.6GHz base, 4.5GHz boost). When Intel supply the manufacturers with the specs of their new CPU’s they will use TDP to define the expected heat output in Watts. This is where some misleading marketing comes into effect.
The TDP supplied by Intel themselves only relates to using the CPU at base clock.
This means that, under normal conditions, the CPU is constantly drawing more power than is stated in the TDP for the chip. As manufacturers use this to determine how much cooling is installed in the system, this leads to temperatures quickly rising.
This wasn’t as much of an issue in older chips as their turbo clocks weren’t that much higher than the base clocks. Thus power draw was similar and the cooling system was far more able to control it.
However, since boost clocks can now add well over 1.5GHz extra to the operating clocks of the CPU, this significantly increases the power draw and thermal output to match something similar to what you’d expect from a desktop chip. This boost will only drop down when the CPU reaches temperatures close to its Tmax of 100°C.
At this point, the CPU will back off slightly and try to balance the turbo clock against the temperature of the CPU. All else ignored, this essentially means that anything we do to improve thermal transfer, such as cleaning out dust or re-applying thermal paste or even using liquid metal, will not affect the temperatures of the system.
Due to how turbo boost works, if we put a better cooling solution on the system, it will only allow the CPU to run at higher clocks for longer before reaching the same temperature threshold and throttling back. The cooling systems in modern laptops are being designed based around the TDP of the CPU supplied by Intel. This means that the cooling system as a whole cannot handle the pure thermal output of the CPU with its massive boost clocks and power draw.
This also means that, despite the high temperatures, the CPU’s aren’t thermal throttling. The CPU can only truly be classified as thermal throttling when the CPU clock speeds fall below the base clock. As the base clock is so much lower than the boost clock it is very rare for this to occur.
With the last few generations of Intel laptops we have received we have been getting more and more customer complaints surrounding the temperatures of the CPU’s. These complaints have even led to the removal of certain products from our product line-up (P950).
The cause
There are two main causes as to why this issue is becoming more and more apparent with each new product cycle.
The first is the industry trend to try and fit the most powerful hardware into the slimmest of chassis. The smaller chassis’ of most modern laptops leave little room for large, effective cooling solutions to keep the newer laptop CPU’s in check. This had led to some instances where the chassis itself is partly being used as a cooling aid. With some thinner chassis being made out of metal we are seeing that heat being transferred to the chassis itself which makes certain chassis (such as the P9xx series by Clevo and ID-Pxx series by TongFang) heat up significantly during use.
Tests on the TongFang chassis revealed temperatures of around 40-45°C in the normal places you would rest your hands and up to 55°C near the exhaust.
The second is Intel’s focus on the Turbo boost technology in laptop CPU’s. This is how we are seeing massive variations in the rated base and boost clocks of these new CPU’s (i7-9750H 2.6GHz base, 4.5GHz boost). When Intel supply the manufacturers with the specs of their new CPU’s they will use TDP to define the expected heat output in Watts. This is where some misleading marketing comes into effect.
The TDP supplied by Intel themselves only relates to using the CPU at base clock.
This means that, under normal conditions, the CPU is constantly drawing more power than is stated in the TDP for the chip. As manufacturers use this to determine how much cooling is installed in the system, this leads to temperatures quickly rising.
This wasn’t as much of an issue in older chips as their turbo clocks weren’t that much higher than the base clocks. Thus power draw was similar and the cooling system was far more able to control it.
However, since boost clocks can now add well over 1.5GHz extra to the operating clocks of the CPU, this significantly increases the power draw and thermal output to match something similar to what you’d expect from a desktop chip. This boost will only drop down when the CPU reaches temperatures close to its Tmax of 100°C.
At this point, the CPU will back off slightly and try to balance the turbo clock against the temperature of the CPU. All else ignored, this essentially means that anything we do to improve thermal transfer, such as cleaning out dust or re-applying thermal paste or even using liquid metal, will not affect the temperatures of the system.
Due to how turbo boost works, if we put a better cooling solution on the system, it will only allow the CPU to run at higher clocks for longer before reaching the same temperature threshold and throttling back. The cooling systems in modern laptops are being designed based around the TDP of the CPU supplied by Intel. This means that the cooling system as a whole cannot handle the pure thermal output of the CPU with its massive boost clocks and power draw.
This also means that, despite the high temperatures, the CPU’s aren’t thermal throttling. The CPU can only truly be classified as thermal throttling when the CPU clock speeds fall below the base clock. As the base clock is so much lower than the boost clock it is very rare for this to occur.
SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
Whilst I understand the nature of modern intels, these temps are not within the margin normally found on this chassis. We rarely see anything over 90c, with normal gaming averaging in the high 80’s.
The Recoil is the most effective chassis that PCS sell regarding cooling.
This particular instance is outside of normal operating temperatures and needs rectifying.
No intel mobile chip should be thermal throttling with effective pasting.
SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
Although looking at all reviewer for this chassis, they all mention thermal throttling.
Perhaps I’m referring to the Recoil 2
Damn Intel, they’re chips just can’t meet their stated specs, they shouldn’t be allowed to advertise them this way.
Thermal throttling is an emergency measure to keep the chip from burning out. It should never be deemed “Normal” for any chip to run consistently at a throttling level.
Well, not long to wait for AMD mobile chips thank god, I certainly won’t be buying intel again.