Recoil 3 III Laptop Power throttling

[mohasi]

Oh, ok, it is TongFang, in that case, yes it's Gaming Center from your PCS downloads.

When you're clean installing use the latest image from Microsoft, don't use an old one and update, that's a very "unclean" way of going about it

Download Windows 10

I did a fresh install, for Windows 10 21H2 and even installed the preview update.

I also installed the Gaming Centre, and put it in "Game" mode.

I ran prime 95 for 10 minutes, I pressed Ctrl+Print but it only captured the HWMonitor window (attached), I also took a photo in case the screenshot did not work, it is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/17JC8jpD7Mri-UNlVz0JZGb0_Pp7qFLP9/view?usp=sharing

Then I ran FurMark and recorded a .gif (turned out too large) which shows the Power Limit triggering, the .gif is here https://drive.google.com/file/d/19UvwZpvKDJNtFXurpjCK9JCqaIJ2ZEZH/view?usp=sharing

 

[mohasi]

I'm not a laptop person by any means but that second video is weird to me....the GPU throttle is coming on immediately and the GPU Utilisation only reaches 1%....yet all temperatures (GPU and CPU) are within normal ranges. Of course, HWM may not be accurate and it does seem odd that GPU utlisation is zero given some would be needed to display the, well, display?

It happens in MSI afterburner too, in-game on the OSD, but since furmark stresses the GPU it happens quicker there.

 

[SpyderTracks]

It happens in MSI afterburner too, in-game on the OSD, but since furmark stresses the GPU it happens quicker there.

Have you installed windows 11 at any time?

My guess is there is a limit being applied to the clocks on the GPU, this can happen if windows is updated to windows 11 with an incompatible control center / gaming center installed, it applies really low PL values on the card which appear to be written to the BIOS and the only way to restore performance is to reflash the BIOS.

I would suggest giving PCS a call and running it past them.

 

[mohasi]

Have you installed windows 11 at any time?

I did once, out caused me some issues when booting, I would get a blue screen sometimes. Also I didn't like it.

 

[SpyderTracks]

I did once, out caused me some issues when booting, I would get a blue screen sometimes. Also I didn't like it.

Amended post above, that's likely the issue, it may have written incorrect PL values back to the BIOS, you may need a BIOS reflash, but you need to do this with PCS.

 

[mohasi]

Amended post above, that's likely the issue, it may have written incorrect PL values back to the BIOS, you may need a BIOS reflash, but you need to do this with PCS.

I didn't install the gaming centre though on Windows 11 though.

 

[SpyderTracks]

I didn't install the gaming centre though on Windows 11 though.

Did you clean install or upgrade in place from 10?

 

[mohasi]

Did you clean install or upgrade in place from 10?

Clean install as always.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Clean install as always.

You can be certain what the PL values are in gaming center or the BIOS, but the symptoms fit. PL stands for Power Limit, it's literally cutting or increasing the voltage to the card. It may be that the BIOS is actually incompatible, I'm not certain of the true root cause, all I know is that the way to fix it is to reflash the BIOS.

You can also tell by looking at the frequency the GPU is running at when running furmark. I think the usual we see is around 350MHz or something rediculous like that.

What process do you do when clean installing?

It's best not to load a preview build for testing as that's a BETA OS, so throws in too many unknown potential problems.

 

[mohasi]

You can be certain what the PL values are in gaming center or the BIOS, but the symptoms fit. PL stands for Power Limit, it's literally cutting or increasing the voltage to the card. It may be that the BIOS is actually incompatible, I'm not certain of the true root cause, all I know is that the way to fix it is to reflash the BIOS.

You can also tell by looking at the frequency the GPU is running at when running furmark. I think the usual we see is around 350MHz or something rediculous like that.

What process do you do when clean installing?

It's best not to load a preview build for testing as that's a BETA OS, so throws in too many unknown potential problems.

Normally I download the latest .iso file, load that into USB, delete previous partitions and install fresh.

I'll have a look at the frequency when running furmark. Even though that triggers it instantly the real game doesn't, in game it only happens in taxing scenes, but when it happens it's consistent.

Also I'll ask PCS about flashing a new BIOS, but not sure the correct place, is it a different place on this forum or should I email them?

 

[SpyderTracks]

Normally I download the latest .iso file, load that into USB, delete previous partitions and install fresh.

I'll have a look at the frequency when running furmark. Even though that triggers it instantly the real game doesn't, in game it only happens in taxing scenes, but when it happens it's consistent.

Also I'll ask PCS about flashing a new BIOS, but not sure the correct place, is it a different place on this forum or should I email them?

PCS don't monitor the forums, it's best to call them or create a support ticket through your main account

 

[mohasi]

I contacted PCS, and after sending my BIOS version they said it will take a few days and they will see if they can create a new one for me. Not sure what is meant by "create" but I'll wait and report back.

 

[Jasontvnd]

Hey there mohasi , So MSI afterburner is telling you that your GPU is power limit throttling , Thats actually a good thing it means the card is bumping up against its wattage limits and giving you the best performance that it possibly can.

If it was Throttling due to temperature then that's an issue but power limit throttling is exactly what its supposed to do , the card is using all the power that the vendor is allowing it to use which in your case i believe is either 80watts or 90watts.

Take a computer and i mean any computer with a dedicated GPU , Run a graphically intense game or benchmark and uncap the fps you will just about always see MSI Afterburner tell you its power limit throttling.

Sent an image from my own testing that's very GPU bound to hopefully show you that there is absolutely nothing wrong with power limit throttling.

I would suggest you get MSI afterburner configured similar to mine and post a screenshot like the one below and it'll be easy to see if the GPU is having a problem or not,

 

[mohasi]

Hey there mohasi , So MSI afterburner is telling you that your GPU is power limit throttling , Thats actually a good thing it means the card is bumping up against its wattage limits and giving you the best performance that it possibly can.

If it was Throttling due to temperature then that's an issue but power limit throttling is exactly what its supposed to do , the card is using all the power that the vendor is allowing it to use which in your case i believe is either 80watts or 90watts.

Take a computer and i mean any computer with a dedicated GPU , Run a graphically intense game or benchmark and uncap the fps you will just about always see MSI Afterburner tell you its power limit throttling.

Sent an image from my own testing that's very GPU bound to hopefully show you that there is absolutely nothing wrong with power limit throttling.

I would suggest you get MSI afterburner configured similar to mine and post a screenshot if you want us to take a look into it more.

Thanks Jason, I understand that, GPUs power limit to avoid overheating from what I've read.

But in my case I have some temperature overhead. MSI after burner usually allows the power limit to be increased on GPUs unless they are somehow locked. I just want to increase it a little bit so I get a few extra FPS in intense scenes. I will frame cap it to 90 so most of the time it will be underutilized so will get a chance to cool down. I just don't want it dropping to 75fps like it currently does for small periods of time.

The temps shouldn't go above 75 for more than a minute. Currently without a power limit increase it doesn't go above 70 degrees.

That is my reasoning for wanting the increase.

 

[Jasontvnd]

Thanks Jason, I understand that, GPUs power limit to avoid overheating from what I've read.

But in my case I have some temperature overhead. MSI after burner usually allows the power limit to be increased on GPUs unless they are somehow locked. I just want to increase it a little bit so I get a few extra FPS in intense scenes. I will frame cap it to 90 so most of the time it will be underutilized so will get a chance to cool down. I just don't want it dropping to 75fps like it currently does for small periods of time.

The temps shouldn't go above 75 for more than a minute. Currently without a power limit increase it doesn't go above 70 degrees.

That is my reasoning for wanting the increase.

Its a laptop GPU , They are not power capped for heat they are power capped due to the VRM power delivery , On a desktop with a 850w power supply and a 10 phase VRM design on the GPU board its relatively safe but a laptop is a low profile power constrained little monster , They pack a wollop for there size and are tuned from the manufacturer to allready give you the best they can.

They are power and voltage capped incase someone comes along and throws 120 watts at the VRM's that are rated at 90 watts and completely fries them.

What you can do is try to create an offset on the core clock and memory clock to gain some performance since like CPU's not all GPU silicon is the same , for example i have a +175 core and +450 memory on my afterburner which is the highest it will go stable.

You will need to use trial and error to find what works for you.

What game are you trying to run thats giving issues?

 

[mohasi]

Its a laptop GPU , They are not power capped for heat they are power capped due to the VRM power delivery , On a desktop with a 850w power supply and a 10 phase VRM design on the GPU board its relatively safe but a laptop is a low profile power constrained little monster , They pack a wollop for there size and are tuned from the manufacturer to allready give you the best they can.

They are power and voltage capped incase someone comes along and throws 120 watts at the VRM's that are rated at 90 watts and completely fries them.

What you can do is try to create an offset on the core clock and memory clock to gain some performance since like CPU's not all GPU silicon is the same , for example i have a +175 core and +450 memory on my afterburner which is the highest it will go stable.

You will need to use trial and error to find what works for you.

What game are you trying to run thats giving issues?

Thanks, the information was interesting. I'll still want to flash a new BIOS as it might fix another intermittent issue I've been having. Also I need to know what will happen with this PL once I've reflashed.

The game I'm playing is Mass Effect legendary edition, the first game.

Most of the game runs at 144fps, but on specific areas and more intense scenes it drops below 80, which looks bad even with VRR. So I've capped it at 90, which works almost perfectly fine, but on those specific areas it still hits under 80 and power limits, if I could just increase it a little and get 85 then that would be as good as I need.

I can try increasing the frequency but like you said it's a lottery, it might look like it's fine then later at the same frequency it would crash the laptop. I've not tried over clocking for a long time so I'm speaking from past experience.

 

[Jasontvnd]

Thanks, the information was interesting. I'll still want to flash a new BIOS as it might fix another intermittent issue I've been having. Also I need to know what will happen with this PL once I've reflashed.

The game I'm playing is Mass Effect legendary edition, the first game.

Most of the game runs at 144fps, but on specific areas and more intense scenes it drops below 80, which looks bad even with VRR. So I've capped it at 90, which works almost perfectly fine, but on those specific areas it still hits under 80 and power limits, if I could just increase it a little and get 85 then that would be as good as I need.

I can try increasing the frequency but like you said it's a lottery, it might look like it's fine then later at the same frequency it would crash the laptop. I've not tried over clocking for a long time so I'm speaking from past experience.

You are so close to getting what you consider an acceptable frame rate I would definitely give it a go , It's pretty easy and honestly once you find a stable setting it will pritty much be rock solid , It's enough for my 3070ti in the laptop to go from 57 fps to 62 fps average in cyberpunk which for me is perfectly fine.

I would imagine you will get enough performance from doing this to keep you happy most of the time.

Just run the game in windowed and have a play bumping up the core clock until it crashes the game then back it off a little and if it crashes again back it off a little more.

It's risk free really so definitely worth a go , Your temps will still go up slightly on your 1660ti but honestly probably not more than around 3-4c which you seem to have headroom for anyways.

Won't take more than an hour or so to find your best settings , Once done do the same for the memory clock.

Increasing the wattage supplied to your GPU is just not an option so this is your best bet to increase performance.

Hopefully this is somewhat helpful for you.

 

[mohasi]

You are so close to getting what you consider an acceptable frame rate I would definitely give it a go , It's pretty easy and honestly once you find a stable setting it will pritty much be rock solid , It's enough for my 3070ti in the laptop to go from 57 fps to 62 fps average in cyberpunk which for me is perfectly fine.

I would imagine you will get enough performance from doing this to keep you happy most of the time.

Just run the game in windowed and have a play bumping up the core clock until it crashes the game then back it off a little and if it crashes again back it off a little more.

It's risk free really so definitely worth a go , Your temps will still go up slightly on your 1660ti but honestly probably not more than around 3-4c which you seem to have headroom for anyways.

Won't take more than an hour or so to find your best settings , Once done do the same for the memory clock.

Hopefully this is somewhat helpful for you.

Very helpful, you've convinced me to try it out

 

[mohasi]

You are so close to getting what you consider an acceptable frame rate I would definitely give it a go , It's pretty easy and honestly once you find a stable setting it will pritty much be rock solid , It's enough for my 3070ti in the laptop to go from 57 fps to 62 fps average in cyberpunk which for me is perfectly fine.

I would imagine you will get enough performance from doing this to keep you happy most of the time.

Just run the game in windowed and have a play bumping up the core clock until it crashes the game then back it off a little and if it crashes again back it off a little more.

It's risk free really so definitely worth a go , Your temps will still go up slightly on your 1660ti but honestly probably not more than around 3-4c which you seem to have headroom for anyways.

Won't take more than an hour or so to find your best settings , Once done do the same for the memory clock.

Increasing the wattage supplied to your GPU is just not an option so this is your best bet to increase performance.

Hopefully this is somewhat helpful for you.

I tried it, but no success. A +200 increase was the best I could get before crashes, and that did not result in even a single FPS increase, not did the +100 on the memory. No increase in temps either, same Power Limit as before.

Not sure, but you can see that it's only using the GPU at 50% or so, so its not like its stressing it out, yet it's still hitting PL. So an increase in frequencies would not help as it is not even using what it has to its fullest. It is not the CPU either, as you can see the loads are low.

 

[Jasontvnd]

Your game is not GPU bound in this scenario , It's hitting the power limit because it's running at 2040mhz , In a GPU bound scenario you would see improvements with your overclock , Ignore your GPU for now because it's not that causing the issue here.

Games often don't make use of multicore CPUs and your thread 3 seems to have the main game thread running on it.

I would say that your best bet here is to play as is since your GPU is running at 55% because it's not the bottleneck , It is likely an engine limitation with the game at this point.

I know some people are super sensitive to fps in games but I would think 71fps would be fine if it's only at certain points.