New Recoil Series Laptop 15" keys unresponsive

[cookiedude]

Still waiting for their reply, but I popped off one of the key switches, and now I know exactly what the problem is. My previous explanation was close:

The metal prong (circled in red) closes a circuit when it's pushed down and results in a keystroke. The small plastic piece protruding from the top (circled in blue) is pushed past a tiny metal flap that produces a distinctive "click". This is why pressing the top half of the key cap produces a click, but the click doesn't translate into a keystroke - these are two independent mechanisms that aren't activated at the same time depending on how you press the key.

Bad design. I am miffed.

Hey, thanks so much for the in-depth investigation. I too initially had a look a couple of weeks ago at the underlying mechanism, just not in detail like this. This is a major bummer, even since you mentioned the issue a few days ago, I've tried half focusing on pressing the bottom half of the keys but its a huge pain in the ass.

I'm irritated because I paid a LOT for this machine. I had to wait nearly a month for the assembly and delivery also, and something as simple as the keys being terrible vexes me. Supposedly they do rigorous "testing" as one of the production steps. Did none of the guys who do all the config get as miffed as us whilst using the laptop? Unless I assume they plugged in some third party keyboard and mouse so they don't ruin the nice shiny new one. Its pretty unacceptable. I'm gonna contact PCS and see what they can do about this.


Thanks again man, for all the info. Do PM me or reply later as I'm gonna bring this up to them and it would be good to know that there's someone else doing the same.

 

[cookiedude]

Also, I've just done the same, popping off the key cap, and I have another issue. As I type I slide my fingers around and that means sometimes only hitting the corner of a key. Look at the larger white plastic piece that allows the key cap to clip in, and depresses causing the 'circuit to close' via the attached protruding feature. If you imagine it in 4 sections, top and bottom two sections separated by the metal bar, and an imaginary line down the middle, and you press either top left or top right of the white piece fully down, there is no movement of that metal prong that completes the circuit.

What a silly mechanism. Half of the key doesn't work. I'm going to call Monday and ask for an explanation.

 

[Rairun]

Yeah, hopefully they will have a solution.

This is particularly annoying because the mechanical keyboard is supposed to be a pro, not a con. But I don't actually mind having a membrane keyboard. I don't need RGB lights either. I would be happy with the most plain keyboard imaginable, as long as the keys actually worked every time I pressed them.

 

[Rairun]

Received this response today:

Unfortunately there is only one type of keyboard that will fit this laptop.

We can replace the keyboard for you under warranty. However we wont be able to do a lot without having the laptop returned to us under RMA. Current RMA time is 6 to 8 weeks.

If we can assist you any further, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Does anyone else have this laptop but doesn't experience this issue? I'm not keen on sending it away for 6 to 8 weeks only for it to come back with a new keyboard and the same problems.

 

[Animal_79]

Received this response today:



Does anyone else have this laptop but doesn't experience this issue? I'm not keen on sending it away for 6 to 8 weeks only for it to come back with a new keyboard and the same problems.

Are there any other owners with or without the same problem?

I'm on the cusp of ordering but if this is a common problem due to design I think I'll have to look at another option.

Thanks in advance

 

[cookiedude]

Update: I spoke on the phone with someone from PCS. They understood the issue and he said he was going to chat with the design department about it and get back to me with any info possible. He and I both dont think it can be swapped out or anything as its part of the chassis design.

Long story short, may just be something we have to get used to.

@Animal_79 , I would still highly highly reccomend this laptop, on two conditions. One youre ok with it's powerlead having a pretty hefty power block on it. I weighs quite a bit and its only about 80 or 90cm away from the bit that plugs into the laptop. Two, this whole keyboard issue. I'd say its just a matter of adapting to a very different keyboard feel. I'm gonna have to just concentrate extra hard for like 6 months or so to get used to hitting more central on my keys, and with intent. To be honest, its not the worst thing, its just very silly and a huge oversight that this key thing wasn't consumer tested.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Update: I spoke on the phone with someone from PCS. They understood the issue and he said he was going to chat with the design department about it and get back to me with any info possible. He and I both dont think it can be swapped out or anything as its part of the chassis design.

Long story short, may just be something we have to get used to.

@Animal_79 , I would still highly highly reccomend this laptop, on two conditions. One youre ok with it's powerlead having a pretty hefty power block on it. I weighs quite a bit and its only about 80 or 90cm away from the bit that plugs into the laptop. Two, this whole keyboard issue. I'd say its just a matter of adapting to a very different keyboard feel. I'm gonna have to just concentrate extra hard for like 6 months or so to get used to hitting more central on my keys, and with intent. To be honest, its not the worst thing, its just very silly and a huge oversight that this key thing wasn't consumer tested.

I have to give big kudos to both @cookiedude and @Rairun for not only the way you've deciphered the issues with the keyboard, but also the way you've communicated this to PCS. Big hats off to you both, this is the way to deal with issues like this.

Unfortunately on most laptops these days, the keyboard is indeed a part of the chassis which is pretty criminal in my eyes. Apple were the ones who started it on the MacBooks, and anything Apple does, others copy.

There is a movement called "Right To Repair", spearheaded by iFixit and several others including Louis Rossman on YouTube. The idea is that the big tech companies are unnecessarily and co-ordinately making things harder to fix, and not giving 3rd party's access to their tools and manuals purposefully so that the owner then has to go to the manufacturer for repairs. Right To Repair has just gained a lot of traction over in the USA in the last couple of weeks with some federal laws being passed in favour of it, so with any luck we'll see the same adoption over here and these kinds of practices will hopefully be stamped out.

Please understand, I am by no means grouping PCS into being a difficult party in this, not in any way at all. PCS are merely assemblers of pre built custom chassis and in my experience, PCS often go above and beyond and will do repairs outside warranty or go the extra mile when they can. There are really only a couple of worldwide manufacturers out there who deal in custom chassis.

In my opinion, Clevo are far better for reparability than TongFang, and have more durable builds.

But what you've fed back to PCS, I have no doubt whatsoever they will feed back to TongFang, and it's the system integrators like PCS that hold the most weight with feedback to the manufacturers. So you've taken exactly the right steps and done it in a considerate and polite manner.

Well done 👍

 

[Rairun]

@Animal_79 , I would still highly highly reccomend this laptop, on two conditions. One youre ok with it's powerlead having a pretty hefty power block on it. I weighs quite a bit and its only about 80 or 90cm away from the bit that plugs into the laptop. Two, this whole keyboard issue. I'd say its just a matter of adapting to a very different keyboard feel. I'm gonna have to just concentrate extra hard for like 6 months or so to get used to hitting more central on my keys, and with intent. To be honest, its not the worst thing, its just very silly and a huge oversight that this key thing wasn't consumer tested.

^ Yeah, exactly. The keyboard is just bad enough for me to feel disappointed and annoyed about a laptop I spent a lot of money on (and that I otherwise love). This shouldn't happen even with the cheapest laptop. But the keyboard is also just good enough for me to feel like I can live with it. The keyboard is at its worst when I bring the laptop to bed (so my wrists aren't at an ideal angle) and type intermittently - i.e. when I'm browsing the internet and chatting with a friend at the same time, etc. When I sit up straight, rest my wrists properly and type away, I find I hit the correct area of the keys nearly all the time. I just wish I didn't have to worry about being so precise, and I think I paid enough money not to have to deal with this. Again, not a deal breaker for me, but like cookiedude said, it's a huge oversight.

 

[Rairun]

Update: I spoke on the phone with someone from PCS. They understood the issue and he said he was going to chat with the design department about it and get back to me with any info possible. He and I both dont think it can be swapped out or anything as its part of the chassis design.

Long story short, may just be something we have to get used to.

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath. The switches themselves can be easily swapped out, and in theory they could be redesigned while keeping the point of contact at the bottom of the key (the point of contact would be harder to change, as you'd need to replace the entire keyboard). If the horizontal bar was attached to the top corners instead of the lower ones, that might just be enough pressure to push the key down from all angles? Or maybe the prong itself could be lowered or thickened, reducing the travel distance needed to activate the key? Anyway, I believe this is beyond PCS' control - I don't think they make the switches.

According to my research, there have been several iterations of the same switch design over the years, and they could easily be swapped out. That was my hope for a fix. I know there are louder switches, quieter ones, etc. Different brands that sell Tongfang laptops often use different switches. But I couldn't find any photos to see how different they are.

 

[cookiedude]

I have to give big kudos to both @cookiedude and @Rairun for not only the way you've deciphered the issues with the keyboard, but also the way you've communicated this to PCS. Big hats off to you both, this is the way to deal with issues like this.

Unfortunately on most laptops these days, the keyboard is indeed a part of the chassis which is pretty criminal in my eyes. Apple were the ones who started it on the MacBooks, and anything Apple does, others copy.

There is a movement called "Right To Repair", spearheaded by iFixit and several others including Louis Rossman on YouTube. The idea is that the big tech companies are unnecessarily and co-ordinately making things harder to fix, and not giving 3rd party's access to their tools and manuals purposefully so that the owner then has to go to the manufacturer for repairs. Right To Repair has just gained a lot of traction over in the USA in the last couple of weeks with some federal laws being passed in favour of it, so with any luck we'll see the same adoption over here and these kinds of practices will hopefully be stamped out.

Please understand, I am by no means grouping PCS into being a difficult party in this, not in any way at all. PCS are merely assemblers of pre built custom chassis and in my experience, PCS often go above and beyond and will do repairs outside warranty or go the extra mile when they can. There are really only a couple of worldwide manufacturers out there who deal in custom chassis.

In my opinion, Clevo are far better for reparability than TongFang, and have more durable builds.

But what you've fed back to PCS, I have no doubt whatsoever they will feed back to TongFang, and it's the system integrators like PCS that hold the most weight with feedback to the manufacturers. So you've taken exactly the right steps and done it in a considerate and polite manner.

Well done 👍

Thanks for the words. I definately feel like PCS are one of the better companies and they seem to care about their products, and employ nice people who seem to be hobbyists. I enjoy talking shop with the technical support. Both time's I've called, the different opperators told me that they actually have this Recoil laptop and one mentioned how he also struggled with the power supply .


And yes definately. I'm all for right to repair, and have been following closely. Unfortunately though, some have made it so that there's a clause in the UK's implementation of right to repair that says smartphones or computer aren't included....

British right to repair law excludes smartphones and computers - 9to5Mac

A British right to repair law comes into force today, requiring manufacturers to make spares available to both consumers and third-party ...

9to5mac.com

So.... no to 90% of the right to repair claims then? Ridiculous. Here's hoping it changes.

Anyway, I will continue to update the thread if anything comes up in the future. And thanks @Rairun for all the work and comments.