New gaming rig - intel or AMD?

[H1N1]

Hello,
I have recently joined the forums; with lots of really knowledgeable people who give excellent advice. I am a novice when it comes to PCs, so will, with gratitude, I will be relying on your expertise!

I have a desktop PC. The current specs are
CPU - Intel i7 8700K
GPU - ASUS 1080TI
RAM - Corsair DDR4 - 32GB
Motherboard: ASUS X Hero

As shown from the above specs, the GPU and CPU are old, and the PC is struggling when playing some games; notably Cities Skylines II. It manages games like COD reasonably well. It is more because of CSII, that I am exploring upgrades - and because GTA VI is around the corner which my current rig is the 'minimum' requirement!

Now. We are all very very aware that the Cities Skylines II game continues to be poorly optimised, and even high-end PCs do struggle with the game. That said, for my rig, it is unplayable - even when starting out / very low density.

I do the odd video editing; getting videos off my phone and adding some bits/chopping bits of the video out, etc which is then uploaded to YouTube, etc - nothing too demanding.

I have seen numerous forums discussing Intel over AMD and visa-vera, which I am grateful to have been able to read as it has provided me with some starting points and things to explore.

From what I can gather, the general conclusion from the forums is that Intel seems to be on a break when it comes to CPUs with nothing expected this year, and their latest CPU not performing well for gaming. Therefore, AMD continues to be recommended over and over.

I have seen that the 'X3D' CPU chips are the ones to focus on for gaming, and have been going round and round trying to decide what would be better for the games that I mainly play; as above.
CSII seemingly likes more cores, which drew me to the Ryzen 9 7950X3D chip as it has 16 cores; though a lower 'base clock' than the next chip below, it has a higher 'boost clock' , with 8 of the 16 cores having the 3D V-Cache.
On the other hand, the Ryzen 7 9800X3D chip is recommended over and over for gaming, even though it has 8 cores with a higher 'base clock' than the above it does have a lower boost clock, and 4 of the 8 cores have 3D V-Cache.

However, I am getting conflicting info

I am one of those gamers who will have in the background multiple tabs in Edge open, along with Synology Drive running in the background; I'm not sure if this is a factor to consider when thinking about what CPU to get, but worth saying just in case this does sway what CPU to generally head towards.

I have just seen that AMD is in the process of releasing a 9950X3D; a 16-core processor.

What CPU would you recommend?

I would like to pair it with a 5090 - though please do advise if this is complete overkill and would not really be utilised; I would be grateful for your recommendations and rationale to help inform my decision.

Looking forward to hearing back in due course.

 

[TonyCarter]

The whole of the 8-core CCD of the 9800X3D has access the v-cache, it's not 1/8th of the v-cache per core - it's per CCD. It's the 12/16 core versions (dual CCD) which have only one CCD with v-cache.

At the moment, the 9800X3D is faster in general gaming than a 7950X3D (which is one 7800X3D CCD + one 7700X CCD).

The ideal CPU for gaming and high-core productivity would be the 9950X3D when it comes out in March...which is basically a 9800X3D CCD + 9700X CCD...and the 9000 series has faster boost clocks than the 7000 series in general as the repositioning of the hot v-cache means it's easier to cool, and so easier to push higher.

If you can't wait, and City Skylines 2 is your main reason for buying, then the 7950X3D is probably the best right this moment.

 

[H1N1]

The whole of the 8-core CCD of the 9800X3D has access the v-cache, it's not 1/8th of the v-cache per core - it's per CCD. It's the 12/16 core versions (dual CCD) which have only one CCD with v-cache.

At the moment, the 9800X3D is faster in general gaming than a 7950X3D (which is one 7800X3D CCD + one 7700X CCD).

The ideal CPU for gaming and high-core productivity would be the 9950X3D when it comes out in March...which is basically a 9800X3D CCD + 9700X CCD...and the 9000 series has faster boost clocks than the 7000 series in general as the repositioning of the hot v-cache means it's easier to cool, and so easier to push higher.

If you can't wait, and City Skylines 2 is your main reason for buying, then the 7950X3D is probably the best right this moment.

Thank you for the information and suggestions. I am happy to wait for the new CPUs if they provide a real advantage over the current generation.

If I have understood you properly; essentially the 9800X3D is 8 core with 3D V-Cache contained within the one CCD which games can use all of. Whereas, the 7950X3D has more cores because there are two CCDs which each contain 8 cores; however, only 1 of the CCDs contains 3D V-Cache with the other CCD being 'generic' - as seen in a 7700X CPU.

In order words; the 7950X3D is like having two sets of 8-cores within the CPU chip; and only one set of cores having 3D V-cache. the advantage of this being that a 7950X3D and its replacement 9950X3D would be better at multiple tasks and games that require more cores such as Skylines?

Question point to clarify; the 9950X3D or 7950X3D - I read that games wouldn't be able to utilise two CCDs at the same time, so would be an either or? is that right? because if that's the case, would a game be able to utilise CCD with 3D V-cache and the generic CCD?

 

[H1N1]

The whole of the 8-core CCD of the 9800X3D has access the v-cache, it's not 1/8th of the v-cache per core - it's per CCD. It's the 12/16 core versions (dual CCD) which have only one CCD with v-cache.

At the moment, the 9800X3D is faster in general gaming than a 7950X3D (which is one 7800X3D CCD + one 7700X CCD).

The ideal CPU for gaming and high-core productivity would be the 9950X3D when it comes out in March...which is basically a 9800X3D CCD + 9700X CCD...and the 9000 series has faster boost clocks than the 7000 series in general as the repositioning of the hot v-cache means it's easier to cool, and so easier to push higher.

If you can't wait, and City Skylines 2 is your main reason for buying, then the 7950X3D is probably the best right this moment.

i would also be interested in your analysis of intel products; notably the 14900KS - is this chip worth looking at for gaming?

 

[TonyCarter]

i would also be interested in your analysis of intel products; notably the 14900KS - is this chip worth looking at for gaming?

No. Just NO!!!

Terrible CPU (as was the 13900K), and no faster in the real world than the i7 versions. All of which have manufacturing flaws and WILL degrade over time - how quickly will depend on how hot it gets (would need a 360mm cooler for the i7 or a 420mm cooler for the i9).

The newer '15th Gen' CPUs are heavily modified to reduce the temperature/performance to alleviate this somewhat.

Even if the 13/14/15th gen were working fine, the X3D parts still outperform them in gaming.

 

[H1N1]

No. Just NO!!!

Terrible CPU (as was the 13900K), and no faster in the real world than the i7 versions. All of which have manufacturing flaws and WILL degrade over time - how quickly will depend on how hot it gets (would need a 360mm cooler for the i7 or a 420mm cooler for the i9).

The newer '15th Gen' CPUs are heavily modified to reduce the temperature/performance to alleviate this somewhat.

Even if the 13/14/15th gen were working fine, the X3D parts still outperform them in gaming.

it's funny as time and again on forums people are really advising to steer clear of intel CPUs at the present time.

 

[TonyCarter]

Ongoing thread about the issue here...

Intel 13th and 14th Gen confirmed defective

So there's been a lot of upset gathering steam on the inter webs with intermittent games crashes on Intel 13th and 14th gen. Workarounds range from underclocking to disabling ecores. BUT, there are a lot of people finding that simply disabling hyperthreading is a proper solution. The findings...

www.pcspecialist.co.uk

...and PCS's official word on recalls/warranty (TL;DR is they'll replace and replace whilst in warranty, but once out of warranty it's your own problem)...

Intel 13th/14th Gen Notice

Dear Customers, We are aware of recent discussions regarding potential issues with Intel’s 13th and 14th-generation processors. Here’s an update from PCSpecialist on this matter: Confirmed Issues: Oxidation Issue: Intel has confirmed that a certain batch of the 13th-generation high-end...

www.pcspecialist.co.uk

 

[TonyCarter]

Don't forget to post your config when you come to order, as we can help optimising it, so that you're not overspending on things you'll never get any benefit of, and so we can tweak things to get you the optimum performance for the budget.

 

[AccidentalDenz]

i would also be interested in your analysis of intel products; notably the 14900KS - is this chip worth looking at for gaming?

The 14900KS is only good as an alternative to putting on your central heating. Definitely not good for gaming!

 

[SpyderTracks]

it's funny as time and again on forums people are really advising to steer clear of intel CPUs at the present time.

Because they're really poor processors, literally garbage. Aside from being poor performers, they're not very stable either so BSODs and odd program crashes are every day normalities.

 

[H1N1]

It seems that the sweet spot may be the AMD 9950X3D which has 8 cores of 3D V-Cache within one CCD , and an additional 8-cores in the other CCD.
that said,
the 9950X3D or 7950X3D - I read that games wouldn't be able to utilise two CCDs at the same time, so would be an either or? is that right? because if that's the case, would a game be able to utilise CCD with 3D V-cache and the generic CCD?

Because if a game is not able to utilise all 16 cores as they're across two CCDs, does that mean games wouldn't actually benefit from either the 7950X3D or the newer 9950X3D?

 

[TonyCarter]

The 9950X3D manages the 2 CCDs more efficiently than the 7950X3D, partly due to the repositioning of the hot cache, meaning both CCDs can operate at the same speeds. It just means you don’t get twice the benefit of the cache, but there’s no benchmarks on how much benefit double the cache would offer.

…and of course, the extra cores would make light work of any video editing workloads.

 

[H1N1]

I was doing some late-night reading and have seen various accounts that chips like the 7950X3D cause Windows to struggle to shut down the non-3D V-Cache CCD, which can cause stuttering, issues with gaming, etc., and therefore, this chip should be avoided.
There is talk that this has been resolved in the 9950X3D. I just wanted to explore this with you who may know more about this and can give some more context to it.

 

[TonyCarter]

Yes, the scheduling for the 7900/7950X3D was an issue, but is supposedly fixed in the newer model…but we won’t really know until independent reviews are published nearer the release date.

But AMD did push out an update to the chipset that supposedly helped with the older model. I only have the 7800X3D on a pure gaming machine, so can’t test it myself.

 

[H1N1]

Yes, the scheduling for the 7900/7950X3D was an issue, but is supposedly fixed in the newer model…but we won’t really know until independent reviews are published nearer the release date.

But AMD did push out an update to the chipset that supposedly helped with the older model. I only have the 7800X3D on a pure gaming machine, so can’t test it myself.

It's a bit rubbish tbh because it means having to wait for various checks to take place.

Regarding intel 14900KS , does this have any issues that the AMD struggles with. Does Intel have an equivalent problem whereby the chip has two sets of cores? or are all of their cores under one roof, unlike the AMD that has 8 cores in one CCD and the other 8 cores in another CCD?

 

[TonyCarter]

Yes, Intel has issues with the performance vs efficiency cores…so you can never get all cores/threads operating at the same fast boost speeds…and will use 2-3x the power (and thus heat) that the AMD equivalent will…and is what accelerates the silicon degradation from Intel’s manufacturing defects…and as the i9 is just an i7 with more efficiency cores, an i9 is no faster in heavy duty workloads.

The CCD parking/scheduling is only an issue if you need all of one or all of another lots of times a day and the automatic switching is not working (I think it might be something in Microsoft Game Bar)…otherwise you can adjust it manually to force the scheduling you want...on an app by app level.

Ryzen 7950X3D, 7900X3D, 7800X3D

Finally upgrading, Can someone just confirm this will all work together fine by default, no mucking around with settings? 7800X3D MSI MAG B650 TOMAHAWK CORSAIR VENGEANCE DDR5 RAM 32GB (2x16GB) 6000MHz CL30 AMD EXPO iCUE Compatible My current GPU is an RTX 3080 10GB ?

forums.overclockers.co.uk

 

[H1N1]

Yes, Intel has issues with the performance vs efficiency cores…so you can never get all cores/threads operating at the same fast boost speeds…and will use 2-3x the power (and thus heat) that the AMD equivalent will…and is what accelerates the silicon degradation from Intel’s manufacturing defects…and as the i9 is just an i7 with more efficiency cores, an i9 is no faster in heavy duty workloads.

The CCD parking/scheduling is only an issue if you need all of one or all of another lots of times a day and the automatic switching is not working (I think it might be something in Microsoft Game Bar)…otherwise you can adjust it manually to force the scheduling you want...on an app by app level.

Ryzen 7950X3D, 7900X3D, 7800X3D

Finally upgrading, Can someone just confirm this will all work together fine by default, no mucking around with settings? 7800X3D MSI MAG B650 TOMAHAWK CORSAIR VENGEANCE DDR5 RAM 32GB (2x16GB) 6000MHz CL30 AMD EXPO iCUE Compatible My current GPU is an RTX 3080 10GB ?

forums.overclockers.co.uk

It seems like a lot of faff having to adjust things, especially when spending lots of money out on a CPU.
There are drawbacks from both CPUs.
AMD sounded perfect, but the core parking/scheduling issues make me wonder what other issues there are; I don't want to invest in a new rig for it to be rubbish or full of issues.
As the 9800X3D only has one CCD, I suppose this core parking problem found in 7950X3D with its 2-CCD isn't an issue for the 9800X3D.

ahhh! I really thought I had set myself on either 9800X3D or the new 9950X3D, as it has the extra cores for when I need that additional performance...

 

[H1N1]

My monitor is an Asus 28 mg28uq 4k uhd - still a good monitor or should I consider something else? Was told that 4K monitor isn't ideal! (I've had it since 2017)

 

[MrWilson]

My monitor is an Asus 28 mg28uq 4k uhd - still a good monitor or should I consider something else? Was told that 4K monitor isn't ideal! (I've had it since 2017)

The monitor is a 60hz display, which we wouldn't recommend for gaming nowadays. It will work very well as a secondary screen though.
Depending on your budget we can look at matching a monitor to suit.

But at this point we would be looking at speccing a full system out with you.

Looking at the above, I don't really see any requirements that would warrant 16 cores, you're looking at needing to some fairly top end video editing or other productivity work before you'll see benefit going past the 9800X3D. In terms of being 'no faff', and also holding the title of the best gaming CPU currently available, the 9800X3D would definitely be where I would be looking.

In terms of the overall build, we would just need your budget for the build, and a monitor if you're looking to invest in a new one (I would recommend doing so). If this isn't majorly urgent we can wait to see where the RTX 5070 and RX 9070XT land in terms of price and performance next month too. As stated above the new GPU generation has been disappointing so far.

 

[TonyCarter]

It’s City Skylines 2 that can scale to use more cores…but not being a CS2 or 7950X3D user I don’t know how transparent/efficient the latest scheduling/parking algorithm is.

The reason I think it is/will be fixed, was the scheduler had to choose between high frequency non-3D cores or lower-frequency 3D cores.

The newer CPU has removed this frequency difference, so there’s less of a need to switch/park between the cores…if it needs more cores it simply used more, and will automatically use the 3D cache whenever a game needs it…and ignore the cache when not gaming. Either way it will either use 8-cores + cache to 16-cores plus cache (for gaming) or 8-cores no cache to 16-cores no cache (for high core non game use).

But there’s no harm (other than cost) to go for the 9800X3D for now and swapping it out for a 9950X3D (or 10950X3D) if you feel the need later and the reviews says everything is fixed. It would have been simpler if AMD had put 3D cache on both CCDs, and that’s what we expected, but they haven’t…unless they’re saving that for another model called a 9990X3….but they’ve already ruled that out as they said it’s a waste of money and won’t make any significant difference.

AMD Reveals Real Reason It Won't Put 3D V-Cache On Multiple CCDs

After persistent rumors refused to recede, AMD steps in with a clear explanation why dual-CCD V-Cache doesn't exist.

hothardware.com