Mobile Ryzen only being offered with RECOIL atm?

[GeorgeCA]

I'm saying that if I want to try to understand the differences then I should go and gather lots of information about lots of different aspects from lots of different sources before I come to my conclusion.

What I certainly shouldn't do is ignore all that information in favour of one person who says his mates laptop is no different to his own.

In terms of your language issues you think you might have - I would recommend for the sake of politeness that you not declare someone very well-educated on the subject as childish or speaking nonsense in favour of your self-declared singular and be-all-and-end-all comparison. It's considered rude in - well - every language you can think of.

I did study lots of reviews and informations from many sources plus i had a laptop to play with from a respectable brand.. that's why i am saying what i am saying.

Yes for productivity aka multi-threading, AMD is ahead of Intel, there is no doubt there, but for gaming is not.. same for the thermals..
What i saying is that both laptop CPUs are good and each is better than the other in different scenarios.. I am not bashing AMD/Intel, or saying Intel is better than AMD or vice versa.. Both CPUs are good in different contexts... what can be more balanced than this ?

On the other hand M1 from Apple is better than both

Thank you for the tips... sincerely i didn't know what. In my language is not considered offensive or rude. Maybe the connotation is different. When i say that to a person in my language it implies that i am speaking with a smart/educated individual.

@SpyderTracks sorry mate !

 

[SpyderTracks]

But That's not to say the Ryzen Zen 3 chips have flawless security, just recently with the discovery of the bug in the Predictive store forwarding of the new chips similar to Spectre Variant 4 vulnerabilities in the Intel's. Granted, a very difficult vulnerability to exploit but people will always try and succeed in exploiting them and a majority of users will be unaware to to disable PFS to improve security. The Zen 3 architecture is still in it's infancy so who's to say what other security vulnerabilities will arise in time. (https://www.amd.com/system/files/documents/security-analysis-predictive-store-forwarding.pdf)

But I mostly agree with you. The Ryzen architecture is more efficient, more difficult to exploit and future proofed in comparison to the outdated architecture utilised at the moment by intel.

Every chip is going to have flaws discovered, that’s not my argument. The point is, this flaw was highlighted by AMD themselves (intel hid spectre and meltdown for months before admitting to it, and only then because the researchers who discovered it went public because intel weren’t doing anything about it) and subsequently patched.

Intel have glaring holes still stemming from discoveries in 2018 that they just can’t address without redesigning the silicon because of a significantly flawed design. But they’ve taken zero steps to address it at all, they’ve issued some half baked micro code patches that didn’t work, then they left it up to Microsoft/Apple/Linux to patch it at a software level.

Meanwhile the same vulnerabilities were written out in Ryzen 2 mobile at a hardware level. And Ryzen 1 was successfully mitigated by microcode updates.

I dont know if i made myself understood.
I have a Ionico Intel i7 10875h with RTX 3070 and my friend has a ASUS ryzen 7 5800H with RTX 3070 (Asus boost).

When i played Warzone on his laptop the average thermals were 87 with a max of 95 - this is for the Asus AMD laptop. Average FPS 90.
When i played Warzone on my laptop (intel) the average thermals were 80 with a max of 92 and average FPS 97.

This was either a poor chassis, or bad paste job or windows wasn’t configured properly. And I say that conclusively because aside from the poor chassis with Ryzen 2 mobile which were worldwide panned by every reviewer out there, all Ryzen chassis operate about 10 degrees lower than intel.

There was an infamous MSI chassis that MSI desperately tried to cover up how bad it was and the ASUS Tuf I believe was similarly slammed. That was nothing to do with Ryzen, that was just really crap chassis design.

Also, those temps would have been thermal throttling so the laptop wouldn’t have been achieving normal performance. So any comparison test would t have been relevant.

If I was the owner of that laptop, I would have looked into expected temperatures, realised it was running hot and addressed it, I wouldn't have concluded it was a fault of the CPU and just carried on with a poorly performing laptop.

 

[Macco26]

If you want Ryzen you can opt for Valeon at 17-inch size for less. Does not have a costly per-key-RGB keyboard, it's chunky and a bit uglier. But it's on the same league of the Recoil (they almost shares the same motherboard).

And yes, as a owner of a Ionico Intel based, I do know that in gaming 10875H still beats Cezanne and performs considerably at lower temperatures (I did a Warzone video testing the same laptops: mine vs a 5800H), probably also because Ionico Intel can be undervolted, Zen3 can't. But be real: in any productivity tasks Cezanne smokes Intel. Cinebench is reaching +18-20% more. So if your interest is mainly gaming ok, 5900HX is on par with Intel 10875H. But in compression/coding/compiling/rendering Zen3 is better, hands down.

PS: the Asus you tested against does not have a MUX switch. A big let down of all Asus 2021 line-up. You were better than him for a reason. But the gaming superiority of Intel still stands, as I told you before (check my Warzone video, where the comparison was Apple to Apple with same Mux-enabled laptops, just CPU different). And yeah, incredibly enough, Zen3 is so much hotter in gaming. Almost more in gaming than multicore threads. Maybe due to the bottleneck of Cezanne's PCIe link to GPU limited to 8x...?

 

[SpyderTracks]

This is because of all fan boys that clap for 2% to 5% performance increase that actually in reality is 1%-3%... when in real life scenarios none is better than the other.. basically are almost identical. I have a friend with Ryzen 7 5800H from Asus and i have the Ionico with Intel 10875h and same RTX 3070 (actually his is the one boosted by Asus)... on every CPU/GPU benchmark he is better than me but when we actually use the laptop for real life scenarios, mine is faster than his .. In every game we play mine acts better and is cooler. Even when AMD is using less power is still reaching 95 temps.. with a average of 87 .. so whats the catch ? Is just a marketing hype.

This is actual real world performance in recognised testing metholodogy from a well respected site:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/R9-5900HX-vs-i7-10875H_13007_11949.247596.0.html

Then there's Jarrod's Tech review of the 5900Hs vs 10875H, I use his video purely because he's always been an intel fanboy and even he concludes that the Ryzen is a better buy.

And skip to 7:24 for thermal performance between the 5900HS and the 10875H, there's literally no comparison. Obviously thermals are vastly down to the chassis design, so it's going to vary hugely, but this is something you research before buying.

Then skip to 8:47 to see about power usage. For the i7 to beat the Ryzen, it has to use 150% extra power! Completely pointless for most laptop users who require battery life. If that was ok with you, then you're buying the wrong product anyway as a DTR would be far more powerful.

 

[Macco26]

Since you're referring to Jarrods, in gaming this is what it discovers (in Gaming Intel is still the one to beat):

There, IIRC, Zen3 was quite hot, and the 2 chassis were pretty much identical (from the same manufacturer. Apples to Apples, I contend): this is the Recoil 15 2021.

PS: if it wasn't clear enough @SpyderTracks I do agree with you that, overall, Zen3 Cezanne, especially 5900HX is a better choice, due to the fact it's on par with Intel at gaming and mops the floor with productivty tasks. But that's the problem of higher and higher prices for AMD laptops: If everybody wants AMD, PCS has no other choice than to raise +200, +300 Eur for that option, else its Intel variants would be unsold.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Since you're referring to Jarrods, in gaming this is what it discovers (in Gaming Intel is still the one to beat):

There, IIRC, Zen3 was quite hot, and the 2 chassis were pretty much identical (from the same manufacturer. Apples to Apples, I contend): this is the Recoil 15 2021.

PS: if it wasn't clear enough @SpyderTracks I do agree with you that, overall, Zen3 Cezanne, especially 5900HX is a better choice, due to the fact it's on par with Intel at gaming and mops the floor with productivty tasks. But that's the problem of higher and higher prices for AMD laptops: If everybody wants AMD, PCS has no other choice than to raise +200, +300 Eur for that option, else its Intel variants would be unsold.

That is interesting with the thermal differences on that chassis. It will be interesting to see if there are any developments on that. My guess is there's a voltage issue in the BIOS, wouldn't be the first time Clevo have released a buggy BIOS on release and then followed up with updates later on.

I completely agree, if AMD systems go through the roof because of demand, that's not going to help anyone.

The irony is that almost all AMD chassis have a far lower retail value than an Intel counterpart, as with everything at the moment, prices are just completely crazy. Once we're through this supply / demand madness and everything normalises (if that ever happens!) I don't doubt AMD will seek a more premium price range, they hinted that that was the way things would go with 3rd Gen Ryzen being $50 per chip more expensive than 2nd Gen. But I do hope they remain fair, and given Lisa Su's reputation and the way they've handled their customers, I don't doubt that will be the case.

On that topic, I hear the latest casualty of the silicon shortage is now affecting home products such as air conditioning, TV's and Microwaves:

Chip shortage threatens to disrupt global home appliances market

A shortfall of chips in China’s home appliances industry could potentially have a negative impact on the global market for these products.

www.scmp.com

 

[Macco26]

I think beginning June new Intel 10nm Tigerlake-H at 45W+ (8 cores) will be competing enough with Zen3 on the laptop side.
On Desktop there is no chance: RocketLake-S is still 14++++ nm, hot as ever, and can't offer more than 8 cores while 10th gen or Zen3 can do more.

But on gaming laptops, a 10nm new technology CPU is still a reputable competitor vs Cezanne. I expect prices to balance out a bit. At least demand will be shifted among two variants and not all toward AMD as it seems now.

 

[Rairun]

The reason the 15.6" Recoil's price rose to £1920 wasn't the CPU. It was initially available with a rtx 3070. Now it's only available with a rtx 3080, thus raising the current minimum price.