SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
Itās just that initial āpayā horror followed by angst and anticipation followed by extreme hyper overdose of adrenaline followed by ecstasy followed by a beautiful crash after the first 36 hour marathon!!!
Have I been naughty or nice?
- Thread starter shagly
- Start date
SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
Ha ha! I can relate! Iām almost always positively surprised! Wouldnāt have it any other way.
...the saga continues...
Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...
I thought it best to check with PCS that my build was OK before I pressed the GO! button on both the order with them and one for the case. I got a quick reply saying that, on the whole the configuration would fit into a Fractal Design Meshify C but that the 850W PSU might not. I explained that, although a smaller PSU would do the job, in line with the suggestion in my original thread, to maximize the quiet side of my aims, āThe RM850x is semi passive, unlike the VS and TXm PSUs, such that it can cool itself without needing to use its fan at all in many situation(s). So in real terms it will generally be not quiet, but silent.ā
Apparently, it was the PCS configurator that had raised the alarm although, as the Meshify C isnāt on the options list, a case of similar size had been used to run the check.
In case (geddit?) anyone else, either here or out in there in the www is asking the same question, here is what Iāve found ā
Corsair says the RM850x is 150mm (W) x 86mm (H) x 160mm (L) (the TX650m, which is the PCS configurator recommendation, is 20mm shorter at 140) but the Fractal Design Meshify C product sheet says that the "Power supply depth limit" is "Maximum 175mm recommended".
There is a video on YouTube -
- where Paul confirms the 175 dimension though he may just have been reading the spec sheet.
From Reddit - "The official specs for the Meshify C... the actual reason behind the 175mm max length recommendation is just that PSUs longer than this will rest on the forward base vent without rubber padding to dampen vibrations. Basically though, if your PSU isn't prone to buzzing and you don't mind it touching the case, you can go well over 175mm without issue in many configurations.ā
- Shows a Corsair RM750x which is the same length as the RM850x at 160mm.
And last, but by no means least, Fractal Design Support got back to me to say that, they had not experienced vibration with most of the PSUs they had used in the case and that the PSU cabling wouldnāt be an issue as I was not having a radiator at the front of the case requiring the HDD cage to be moved backwards (towards the PSU area). Further proof was provided in the form of a photo showing a 200mm long (!) PSU one of their team had put into a Meshify Mini C which has āthe same length structure down thereā.
I replied to PCS to say that perhaps the plugs and cables could be a little more difficult to route out of the back of the PSU with the 3.5" drive trays in place but that, because I wasnāt having a radiator at the front, there was no need for the cage to be moved backwards.
The trouble is, I also said that, failing all of that, there was the option to swap out the 2 x 2TG Seagate 3.5" drives for 2 x 1TB Samsung 860 EVO 2.5" SSDs which, as I understand it, can be installed in dedicated SSD mounts behind the motherboard tray and now, Iām quite warming to that idea even though there isnāt actually a problem.
Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...
I thought it best to check with PCS that my build was OK before I pressed the GO! button on both the order with them and one for the case. I got a quick reply saying that, on the whole the configuration would fit into a Fractal Design Meshify C but that the 850W PSU might not. I explained that, although a smaller PSU would do the job, in line with the suggestion in my original thread, to maximize the quiet side of my aims, āThe RM850x is semi passive, unlike the VS and TXm PSUs, such that it can cool itself without needing to use its fan at all in many situation(s). So in real terms it will generally be not quiet, but silent.ā
Apparently, it was the PCS configurator that had raised the alarm although, as the Meshify C isnāt on the options list, a case of similar size had been used to run the check.
In case (geddit?) anyone else, either here or out in there in the www is asking the same question, here is what Iāve found ā
Corsair says the RM850x is 150mm (W) x 86mm (H) x 160mm (L) (the TX650m, which is the PCS configurator recommendation, is 20mm shorter at 140) but the Fractal Design Meshify C product sheet says that the "Power supply depth limit" is "Maximum 175mm recommended".
There is a video on YouTube -
From Reddit - "The official specs for the Meshify C... the actual reason behind the 175mm max length recommendation is just that PSUs longer than this will rest on the forward base vent without rubber padding to dampen vibrations. Basically though, if your PSU isn't prone to buzzing and you don't mind it touching the case, you can go well over 175mm without issue in many configurations.ā
- Shows a Corsair RM750x which is the same length as the RM850x at 160mm.
And last, but by no means least, Fractal Design Support got back to me to say that, they had not experienced vibration with most of the PSUs they had used in the case and that the PSU cabling wouldnāt be an issue as I was not having a radiator at the front of the case requiring the HDD cage to be moved backwards (towards the PSU area). Further proof was provided in the form of a photo showing a 200mm long (!) PSU one of their team had put into a Meshify Mini C which has āthe same length structure down thereā.
I replied to PCS to say that perhaps the plugs and cables could be a little more difficult to route out of the back of the PSU with the 3.5" drive trays in place but that, because I wasnāt having a radiator at the front, there was no need for the cage to be moved backwards.
The trouble is, I also said that, failing all of that, there was the option to swap out the 2 x 2TG Seagate 3.5" drives for 2 x 1TB Samsung 860 EVO 2.5" SSDs which, as I understand it, can be installed in dedicated SSD mounts behind the motherboard tray and now, Iām quite warming to that idea even though there isnāt actually a problem.
Updates (as I missed the deadline for pre-Christmas delivery) ā
The CPU will now be the K, not the KS version,
After much Googleing, the RAM will now be 16GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 2666MHz (2 x 8GB)
The 1st & 2nd Storage Drives will be 2TB Seagate Barracuda 2.5" SSDs,
and the Corsair Hydro Series H100i RGB Platinum.
Just one thing I was wondering about is fan layout, The Fractal Design Meshify C comes with a 120mm fan front and back as standard, along with the radiator in the roof, would it be worth changing the fan layout? I could move the front 120 to the bottom of the case and put 2 x 140s in the front or any other combination. I just have positive/negative pressure in mind.
The CPU will now be the K, not the KS version,
After much Googleing, the RAM will now be 16GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 2666MHz (2 x 8GB)
The 1st & 2nd Storage Drives will be 2TB Seagate Barracuda 2.5" SSDs,
and the Corsair Hydro Series H100i RGB Platinum.
Just one thing I was wondering about is fan layout, The Fractal Design Meshify C comes with a 120mm fan front and back as standard, along with the radiator in the roof, would it be worth changing the fan layout? I could move the front 120 to the bottom of the case and put 2 x 140s in the front or any other combination. I just have positive/negative pressure in mind.
Oussebon
Multiverse Poster
Why? Buy the fastest RAM you can for this budget.
It's not just gaming that sees benefits
DDR4 Memory at 4000 MT/s, Does It Make a Difference?
Benchmarks: Applications. For the most part we test using DDR4-3000, as it occasionally shows some benefits over the more typical 2400 and 2666 MHz speeds. Going to 4000 MHz...
www.techspot.com
Apologies for the delay, this Christmas thing really gets in the way of my Geeking. š¤
Getting this spec. sorted is like trying to eat jelly with a forkā¦š£
Having some sort of set base point to work from (the i9-9900K on a Gigabyte Z390 AORUS PRO), my original posted build included 64GB (4 x 16) of DDR4 3000MHz, it was suggested that 32GB was enough.
I then noted that both the Intel and Gigabyte websites would only assure 2666MHz and was advised that, although 2666 was the base speed, the BIOS and XMP could utilize higher speeds, so I went for 32GB of 3200MHz (3200 being widely regarded as āthe sweet spotā).
Working through my build part by part this week and getting down to the RAM, I found quite a lot of negatives ā
The QVL list only goes up to 16GB with the widest choice running out at 3200 and even the recommended 2666 listing the āNativeā speed as 2133.
Crucial only guarantee up to (and including) 2666MHz.
No-one on PC Part Picker has gone higher than 3600 though some have gone up to 64GB.
Then I got onto the forums (Reddit, Corsair etc.) and found quite a few stories of woe, things like -
āThe current speed the RAM goes to is, default at 2133Mhz. XMP-ing it blindly, I got it to 3200Mhz (activated XMP profile, chose ram speed). Over 3400, it wonāt post.
āVengeance RGB PRO 4 x 8 3200MHZ - XMP Errors and blue screens.ā
āThat damn thing (a Gigabyte Z390 AORUS PRO) was a nightmare, BIOS are (sic) horrible, the software is such a cruel joke*
He got a refund and went for another MOBO.
āItās picky with RAMā¦when XMP enabled, PC doesnāt boot and manual OC canāt take it to suggested values.ā Continuing with - āThis board really has problems with Corsair 8GB sticks at 3200MHz.ā
Some suggestions were that older BIOS versions might help.
I have to assume that, unlike me, these self-builders know a fair bit about what they are doing. The problem with forums (and to a great extent the www and life as a whole) is that people donāt complain about things going right and working well.
The QVL notes lots of different module types so do I assume that PCS have the right ones? Do I further assume that the PCS Elves can make that ācruel jokeā BIOS work with more modules and greater speeds than 2666MHz?
Getting this spec. sorted is like trying to eat jelly with a forkā¦š£
Having some sort of set base point to work from (the i9-9900K on a Gigabyte Z390 AORUS PRO), my original posted build included 64GB (4 x 16) of DDR4 3000MHz, it was suggested that 32GB was enough.
I then noted that both the Intel and Gigabyte websites would only assure 2666MHz and was advised that, although 2666 was the base speed, the BIOS and XMP could utilize higher speeds, so I went for 32GB of 3200MHz (3200 being widely regarded as āthe sweet spotā).
Working through my build part by part this week and getting down to the RAM, I found quite a lot of negatives ā
The QVL list only goes up to 16GB with the widest choice running out at 3200 and even the recommended 2666 listing the āNativeā speed as 2133.
Crucial only guarantee up to (and including) 2666MHz.
No-one on PC Part Picker has gone higher than 3600 though some have gone up to 64GB.
Then I got onto the forums (Reddit, Corsair etc.) and found quite a few stories of woe, things like -
āThe current speed the RAM goes to is, default at 2133Mhz. XMP-ing it blindly, I got it to 3200Mhz (activated XMP profile, chose ram speed). Over 3400, it wonāt post.
āVengeance RGB PRO 4 x 8 3200MHZ - XMP Errors and blue screens.ā
āThat damn thing (a Gigabyte Z390 AORUS PRO) was a nightmare, BIOS are (sic) horrible, the software is such a cruel joke*
He got a refund and went for another MOBO.
āItās picky with RAMā¦when XMP enabled, PC doesnāt boot and manual OC canāt take it to suggested values.ā Continuing with - āThis board really has problems with Corsair 8GB sticks at 3200MHz.ā
Some suggestions were that older BIOS versions might help.
I have to assume that, unlike me, these self-builders know a fair bit about what they are doing. The problem with forums (and to a great extent the www and life as a whole) is that people donāt complain about things going right and working well.
The QVL notes lots of different module types so do I assume that PCS have the right ones? Do I further assume that the PCS Elves can make that ācruel jokeā BIOS work with more modules and greater speeds than 2666MHz?
Oussebon
Multiverse Poster
You're looking for problems where there aren't any
Get the faster RAM - it will work - PCS will make sure of it before shipping it to you. One of the points of buying a PC from a set menu, rather than the complete freedom of self building, is that you're paying the company to make sure it works. PCS seem to err on the side of extreme caution with RAM compatibility too...
The issue to bear in mind with googling every single component is that you are absolutely guaranteed to find problems mentioning them.
This is the point I want to make and I don't want to lead the thread down a rabbit hole of "oh but this instance was this, and that could be a problem if this and the other...".
But the 2nd example you posted was a defective RAM kit (again something to pay PCS to weed out for you).
The 3rd, the guy fixed and his RAM is fine if you scroll down the topic.
Also people love to hate on Gigabyte's BIOS because it's not Asus. Tribalism is rife in thenerd self-defining enthusiast community. Gigabyte's BIOS may not be as user friendly but how much time are you actually planning to spend in the BIOS?
And as Buildzoid puts it, you can learn a BIOS, you can't fix a VRM.
The other two I couldn't find by googling the text. But the point is that by googling any component on PCS's menu (or not) you are certain to find problems mentioned online. And that you're paying PCS to eliminate these for you e.g. compatibility, setting XMP profile, not bending the pins while building the system, etc...
Get the faster RAM - it will work - PCS will make sure of it before shipping it to you. One of the points of buying a PC from a set menu, rather than the complete freedom of self building, is that you're paying the company to make sure it works. PCS seem to err on the side of extreme caution with RAM compatibility too...
The issue to bear in mind with googling every single component is that you are absolutely guaranteed to find problems mentioning them.
This is the point I want to make and I don't want to lead the thread down a rabbit hole of "oh but this instance was this, and that could be a problem if this and the other...".
But the 2nd example you posted was a defective RAM kit (again something to pay PCS to weed out for you).
The 3rd, the guy fixed and his RAM is fine if you scroll down the topic.
Also people love to hate on Gigabyte's BIOS because it's not Asus. Tribalism is rife in the
And as Buildzoid puts it, you can learn a BIOS, you can't fix a VRM.
The other two I couldn't find by googling the text. But the point is that by googling any component on PCS's menu (or not) you are certain to find problems mentioned online. And that you're paying PCS to eliminate these for you e.g. compatibility, setting XMP profile, not bending the pins while building the system, etc...
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Have we met? 'Cos it sounds like you know me šYou're looking for problems where there aren't any
I do think too much, as a perfectionist, I struggle to let go of something and let someone else do it, which is why the original, original plan, was to self-build. The reasons why I binned that idea are the very reasons you note ā PCS (who already know what they're doing) will make it all work together (and warranty it) swapping and replacing if necessary.
None, I was trying to minimize any trouble PCS might have with it before it became a problem.
So, is everyone happy that
I thought Iād āpress the buttonā the week after next to give the PCS Elves a chance to get-over their hang-over(s).
I went for 4 x 8 as it was non-RGB and not as tall but as noted previously re the H100i, I can turn the lighting off, it leaves the other 2 slots free and the pipework shouldn't be a problem.
Any comments from anyone on the fan layout? The build will have 120mm 1200 RPM fans front and back (assuming the Elves don't change it), along with the radiator and it's 2 x 120 2400 rpm fans in the roof. With positive/negative pressure in mind, I could move the front 120 to the bottom of the case, leaving the mesh free of obstruction, put 1 or 2 x 120/140s in the front or any other combination.
Any comments from anyone on the fan layout? The build will have 120mm 1200 RPM fans front and back (assuming the Elves don't change it), along with the radiator and it's 2 x 120 2400 rpm fans in the roof. With positive/negative pressure in mind, I could move the front 120 to the bottom of the case, leaving the mesh free of obstruction, put 1 or 2 x 120/140s in the front or any other combination.
Well, I'll go to the foot of our stairs!
The very case (though not the solid black version). "All things come to those who wait."
That's some memory you've got there!
As you say, in the absence of any definitive air flow design there are the options of removing the PSU shroud and drive cage.
Oussebon
Multiverse Poster
I'd advise against tinkering with the PC essentially for the sake of it when it arrives tbh. The gains to be had will almost certainly be marginal at best, if any. Best to see how the PC behaves as it stands for an extended period, then review only if there is a specific need
I'd like to say a heartfelt thanks for all of the help and you in particular šāāļø . Iāve got the feeling weād be good friends if we werenāt separated by an internet connection.
Tomorrow is P day (proceed šø ). Strangely, Iāve enjoyed the downs just as much as the ups of the spec. tweaking. Tech. in all its forms is consistently a steep learning curve š¤Æ and one I take as both a blessing and a curse. The blessings being helped by how friendly (in the most part) and generous the community is.
Tomorrow is P day (proceed šø ). Strangely, Iāve enjoyed the downs just as much as the ups of the spec. tweaking. Tech. in all its forms is consistently a steep learning curve š¤Æ and one I take as both a blessing and a curse. The blessings being helped by how friendly (in the most part) and generous the community is.