FX Workstation, need help

[nifra]

Hi everybody! First post here

(first of all I'm not english nor is english my first language, please forgive any mistakes)

I want to be an FX Artist, I have the education, but I lack the workstation. I don't know much about hardware and computer building so I made some research and made a first spec, but I need help and advice to know if it's a good spec, if I can achieve similar or better results with other pieces, or even if I may be able to lower the cost!

My budget roof is ~2500€ (as you can see below I'm already at my limit)

I work mostly with Houdini, but I also use Maya, Realflow and Nuke. The main purpose of this workstation would be primarily simulating heavy explosions, fluids dynamics...and secondly rendering

So, here's my spec, all feedback will be highly appreciated

Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Six Core Processor i7-4930K (3.4GHz) 12MB Cache
Case
CORSAIR CARBIDE SERIES™ 200R COMPACT GAMING CASE
Motherboard
ASUS® P9X79 LE: INTEL® SOCKET LG2011
Memory (RAM)
64GB KINGSTON HYPER-X FURY DUAL-DDR3 1600MHz (8 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
4GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 960 - 2 DVI, HDMI, DP - 3D Vision Ready
Free Item
FREE WITCHER 3: WILD HUNT Game with Select GTX 9 Series GPUs!
1st Hard Disk
1TB WD CAVIAR BLACK WD1003FZEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm)
2nd Hard Disk
1TB 3.5" SEAGATE SSHD, SATA 6Gb/s 7200 RPM (64MB + 8GB SSD CACHE)
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Power Supply
CORSAIR 550W VS SERIES™ VS-550 POWER SUPPLY
Processor Cooling
INTEL SOCKET LGA2011 STANDARD CPU COOLER
Extra Case Fans
2 x 12CM Black Case Fan (configured to extract from rear/roof) (13 €)
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND (13 €)
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)
USB Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 6 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre European Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Operating System
Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence (150 €)
Windows 10 Upgrade
FREE Upgrade to Windows 10 with all Windows 7 & Windows 8.1 Purchases*
Office Software
NO OFFICE SOFTWARE
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Warranty
3 Year Platinum Warranty (3 Year Collect & Return, 3 Year Parts, 3 Year labour) (196 €)
Delivery
3 - 4 DAY DELIVERY TO SPAIN (42 €)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 4 to 6 working days
Quantity
1

Price: 2.556,00 € including IVA and delivery.

 

[Cadwah]

I will attempt an answer on this however I don't use any of the software you mentioned. I would have a few questions which may influence my advice such as:

How much research have you done regarding the GPU choice? Is a 960 going to have enough grunt for the applications you plan to run?
Any specific reason for 64GB RAM, would 32GB suffice?
Why have you paired a HDD with an SSHD?

If the 960 does meet your needs and it probably should, most of the functionality you mentioned would be heavily CPU dependent. I would make some suggestions such as going for a larger case, under load your components will get toasty, the more airflow you have around them will give you less chance of an overheat. You may benefit from faster RAM if you will be overclocking your CPU and you definitely need to upgrade the CPU cooling, this will keep your CPU cooler while it is thrashing out your calculations.

I was having a play around with the configurator and came up with this:

Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Six Core Processor i7-5820K (3.3GHz) 15MB Cache - Newer CPU than the one you chose, there is very little between these two CPU's when benchmarking. I doubt you would notice the difference.
Case
COOLERMASTER CM690 III ADVANCED CASE (GREEN) - Better cooling with this case, no need for the extra case fans which can add noise.
Motherboard
Gigabyte X99M Gaming 5: mATX, LG2011-3, USB 3.0, SATA 6GBs, XFIRE/SLI - The X99 socket is newer and should give you a longer lifespan on the motherboard and give you more options for a future CPU upgrade if needed.
Memory (RAM)
32GB KINGSTON HYPER-X FURY DDR4 2400MHz (4 x 8GB) - Less RAM than you originally chose but the DDR4 RAM is faster, it is expensive at the moment as it is new. You can always add another 4 sticks when the price comes down a bit to take you to 64GB.
Graphics Card
4GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 960 - 2 DVI, HDMI, DP - 3D Vision Ready - The 4GB GTX 970 isn't that much of a price hike considering the overall cost of your build. It is a different architecture to the 960 and offers an extra 600 CUDA cores which can sometimes be used for rendering purposes.


Free Item
FREE WITCHER 3: WILD HUNT Game with Select GTX 9 Series GPUs!
1st Hard Disk
240GB KINGSTON HYPERX 3K SSD, SATA 6 Gb/s (upto 555MB/sR | 510MB/sW) - Much faster drive for your operating system, program files and enough room to store your current projects while you work on them. An SSD will offer much faster access to data than any HDD or SSHD.
2nd Hard Disk
2TB WD CAVIAR BLACK WD2003FZEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm) - 2TB of data storage, this drive is the best of the HDD's by cost. You will see no benefits from matching an SSHD with an SSD.
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Power Supply
CORSAIR 650W CS SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET (96 €) - Modular PSU will allow for better cable management which aids airflow in your case.
Processor Cooling
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO (120mm) Fan CPU Cooler (41 €) - This component is dependent on whether you will overclock your CPU, as a general rule if you are keeping your CPU at stock speeds and relying on the built in Turbo boost to match requirements of higher core speeds then this chosen Cooler will be better than the Standard CPU cooler. If you intend to overclock your CPU (And there are good results with the 5820k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj4ixZE7EWo) you should go for a water cooler as they offer better cooling, the H80i or H100i would be preferable but will add noise to your machine.
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND (13 €)
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)
USB Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 6 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre European Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Operating System
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence (110 €)
Windows 10 Upgrade
FREE Upgrade to Windows 10 with all Windows 7 & Windows 8.1 Purchases*
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365
Anti-Virus
BULLGUARD INTERNET SECURITY - FREE 90 DAY TRIAL
Warranty
3 Year Platinum Warranty (3 Year Collect & Return, 3 Year Parts, 3 Year labour) (198 €) (As a fellow European I should let you know that you do not get the Collect portion of this Warranty if you don't live in the UK+EIRE. You will need to pay to ship your PC to PCSpecialist in the event of a failure/Issue, they will then ship it back for you. It's still worth the money for the Parts Warranty in my opinion especially considering the cost of some of your components.)
Delivery
3 - 4 DAY DELIVERY TO SPAIN (42 €)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 6 to 8 working days
Quantity
1

Price: 2.335,00 € including IVA and delivery. Slight saving, could allow you to go for the 970 and better CPU cooling.

Unique URL to re-configure: http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/quotes/intel-x99-pc/j_5Q2H7MBe/

Hope this helps

 

[nifra]

Hi, thanks for the insightful answer! Here are the answers to your questions and a couple of mine

Well, the software I almost exclusively work with is Houdini, it's render engine doesn't support GPU, in fact it only supports it for few features where it does a better job...But ultimately, having a super video card for GPU simulation/rendering would go to waste given my workflow. On the other hand, it heavily relies on CPU, and eats huge amounts of RAM while simulating, while doing research I found out that most VFX Professionals use a minimum of 32 Gb and usually go up to 128 Gb for heavy simulations.

SSD memory and HDD are there for a reason too: when driving simulations, the program will write a file for every frame (a second has 24 frames), and use that written file to calculate the next frame. Those files can easily go up to 3-5 Gb each (even more but I haven't reached that level yet), so I need the SSD to store those files and have the program access them fast, or I might have a bottleneck eventhought the workstation has the power to work better. Right now I work only with a HDD and reading those files takes forever. I intend to use the SSD for work in progress and the HDD to run the program/system and store finished projects

Now, I have a couple of questions:

1- Overclocking: I know what it is, but I don't know how to use it or if it's a good option for me. I've read a lot of different opinions on liquid cooling, some good some bad, about risks, etc...is it really safe? on the other hand, does overcloking shorten the lifespan of the workstation overall, even if using liquid cooling? I want a strong machine but I'd rather take some extra time doing my calculations and have the workstation live longer than have it running super fast overclocking and die sooner

2- Processor: You mentioned there is very little difference between i7 5820k and i7 4790k. I've made some research and read that the i7 5820k only works with DDR4 RAM and a newer motherboard than the i7 4790k, so it raises the overall price...I understand the spec you gave me is more future-oriented...My question is: will I really notice it? I've read that DDR4 is way better than DDR3, but wouldn't it be better for my spec to use an i7 4790k with 64 Gb of DDR4? when I saw your spec had a lower cost but only 32Gb of RAM my first thought was to use that extra money to reach the 64Gb, but with your spec it goes a bit too hight

 

[Cadwah]

Hello,

I would say in that case that the 960 is probably overkill for you, something like the 750Ti would probably meet your needs. However afterr some research here: http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=415&Itemid=269
It states that: On certain graphics cards, Houdini can use the GPU to dramatically increase the performance and speed of your Pyro FX and Fluid simulations.
In order to take advantage of this capability, you'll need a GPU capable of supporting OpenCL. On the Nvidia side, that would be a Tesla or a Quadro x000 series (non-FX Quadro; 600,2000,4000,5000,6000) or a GEForce 400 or 500 series. For AMD, you need a FirePro card (not FireGL) or a Radeon 5000, 6000, or 7000 series GPU.
This would lead you towards a workstation build, even the simplest workstation build bursts your budget.

Be careful, an SSD is not the same as an SSHD, an SSHD is a normal Hard drive with a Solid State memory cache, it is faster than a HDD but you will still be slower than a SSD, especially for your uses. If your OS takes about 70Gb a 240GB SSD would still leave you about 150GB for your projects and the 2TB HDD's would be to store everything you aren't currently working on.

Edit: I've re-read your info on the SSD and if you are creating 3-5GB per frame then the SSD I mention below won't be large enough. Neither will the SSHD be sifficient, by moving that kind of data volume the small solid state memory in the SSHD will be next to useless and your read/write actions will ultimately be governed by the 5400rpm HD in the SSHD. You may need to go for a much larger SSD 500GB or 1TB, this will add significant cost to your build.

Overclocking basically is increasing the speed of your processor above the factory settings, normally by playing with the voltage and other settings. It can greatly increase the performance you can get from your CPU but by doing so the chip produces more heat. Because of this Liquid cooling is recommended as it is more efficient than air cooling. Most chips can be safely overclocked a little, most good motherboards will have BIOS that includes overclocking settings or control panels to assist, there are also lots of guides on the net. It all adds risk however, the bigger the overclock the bigger the risk of overheating and ultimately damage to the CPU.

I said there was little difference between the benchmarks of the 5820k and 4930k (The 4970k is only quad core.) The 4930k is an Intel Extreme CPU and one of the last generation to use the X79 socket. I mentioned that if you went with your original build if it came time to upgrade your CPU you would need to upgrade your motherboard too. Whereas if you went with the 5820k which is on the new X99 socket you would have a greater choice of CPU's to upgrade to as the X99 socket will probably be around for a few years yet.

How about something like this:
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Six Core Processor i7-5820K (3.3GHz) 15MB Cache
Case
COOLERMASTER CM690 III ADVANCED CASE (GREEN)
Motherboard
ASUS® X99-S: ATX, HSW-E CPU, USB 3.0, SATA 6 GB/s
Memory (RAM)
64GB CRUCIAL DDR4 2133MHz (8 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 750 Ti - DVI, mHDMI, VGA - 3D Vision Ready
1st Hard Disk
240GB KINGSTON HYPERX 3K SSD, SATA 6 Gb/s (upto 555MB/sR | 510MB/sW)
2nd Hard Disk
2TB WD CAVIAR BLACK WD2003FZEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm)
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Power Supply
CORSAIR 650W CS SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET (96 €)
Processor Cooling
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO (120mm) Fan CPU Cooler (41 €)
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND (13 €)
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)
USB Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 6 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Operating System
Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence (152 €)
Windows 10 Upgrade
FREE Upgrade to Windows 10 with all Windows 7 & Windows 8.1 Purchases*
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365
Anti-Virus
BULLGUARD INTERNET SECURITY - FREE 90 DAY TRIAL
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour) (19 €)
Delivery
3 - 4 DAY DELIVERY TO SPAIN (42 €)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 6 to 8 working days
Quantity
1

Price: 2.534,00 € including IVA and delivery.

Unique URL to re-configure: http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/quotes/intel-x99-pc/IXUhLACUXO/

Just realised that this is within price as the Warranty is only Silver... I'd still advise you to save up a little more and go with the newer socket build.

 

[Edd1e]

I may well be wrong but I was under the impression that both Nvidia GTX and AMD r9 cards support open cl with AMD probably having the edge due to Nvidia's commitment to CUDA.

 

[Spuff]

I've read a lot of different opinions on liquid cooling, some good some bad, about risks, etc...is it really safe?

Yes, it is safe (the Corsair coolers on offer by PCS anyway).
I have total confidence in my H60, and even if it were to leak, which it will not, the liquid would not fall on any sensitive component.
See:

 

[nifra]

Thanks for all the feedback!

Cadwah that build seems pretty strong, I'll take your advice and save up a little bit more in order to get the gold warranty and a 1TB SSD.

Seeing Spuff's build and advice looks safe, I might get the liquid cooling eventhought I'm not initially planning on overclocking (at least for now), but might as well try it in the future

All I have left is some saving left