First gaming desktop

[ThyThy]

My 2 cents:

I would go with a more airflow focused case, but that is a matter of preference. Case choice is partly based on esthetic/taste, so if some of them looks good to you just ask if it would do the job.

In addition, since Acerakis is not tech-savvy as per his own words, I believe he won't really benefit from the advantages of the X670E motherboard over the B650 (the TUF one also).
In the same vain, you need to ask yourself if there is a chance that you will upgrade this platform in the future, either yourself or through PCspecialist, and if you think that you are the kind of person willing to get among the most high-end, power-hungry stuff in the future.
If your answer to either of these questions is no, then I believe a 1200W PSU is massively oversized for your needs. In that case I would suggest 750 or 850W for more headroom.

 

[Scott]

My 2 cents:

I would go with a more airflow focused case, but that is a matter of preference. Case choice is partly based on esthetic/taste, so if some of them looks good to you just ask if it would do the job.

In addition, since Acerakis is not tech-savvy as per his own words, I believe he won't really benefit from the advantages of the X670E motherboard over the B650 (the TUF one also).
In the same vain, you need to ask yourself if there is a chance that you will upgrade this platform in the future, either yourself or through PCspecialist, and if you think that you are the kind of person willing to get among the most high-end, power-hungry stuff in the future.
If your answer to either of these questions is no, then I believe a 1200W PSU is massively oversized for your needs. In that case I would suggest 750 or 850W for more headroom.

Difference of opinion from me.

The case recommended is bang on. It's a fantastic all around case which reviews very highly on airflow and all other tangible measurements. Presuming that a case with a glass front has less airflow with one with a mesh front isn't scientific at all. Sure, you can get better airflow cases, but there are diminishing returns once you get past optimal. There's dust to consider as well, and all manner of other metrics.

We wouldn't recommend a case that would hamper the system in any way. The smaller cases with similar design require a more mindful consideration of the parts within. An AM5 chip with a 240/360mm AIO extracting on a good airflow case will easily and comfortably handle the 4090. There's nothing to worry about.

1200w is the best option for the 4070Ti, 750w would be cutting it too fine and the 850w offering isn't ATX3.1.

If you're going to give advice contrary to that already given, please site sources and justification. We all want to learn and we are all here to learn from each other. Your advice seems based on your own opinion though, rather than actual experience or evidence.

 

[FigmentOfYourImagination]

I have a similar spec to what has been proposed to the OP albeit I have a H150i on my 7800x3D and a 4090 rather than a 4070. running at 4k120, highest GPU temperature seen (with the 5000x glass front in place) is 72 degrees, highest the coolant on the H150i has been is high 40s (CPU temp in mid 60s) on a very unoptimised game. The 5000x outside of looking stunning, has excellent airflow

 

[SpyderTracks]

I have a similar spec to what has been proposed to the OP albeit I have a H150i on my 7800x3D and a 4090 rather than a 4070. running at 4k120, highest GPU temperature seen (with the 5000x glass front in place) is 72 degrees, highest the coolant on the H150i has been is high 40s (CPU temp in mid 60s) on a very unoptimised game. The 5000x outside of looking stunning, has excellent airflow

This is the difference between bad case design and good.

Corsair cases are a very good marriage of airflow combined with aesthetics, they have an extremely high R&D budget to work with and can afford flow rate analysis software at the design stage and the professionals who can interpret that data and optimise the design around the airflow.

Smaller / mass produced things don’t fall under this same bar, they will just make a case look visually pleasing without addressing cooling issues that incur due to those design choices.

This is why premium cases tend to cost a lot more, the materials are almost a negligible cost, it’s the R&D costs that need to be reclaimed that make up most of it

 

[Scott]

The design hides it really well, as it's right there when you look for it.... but the overall design takes your eyes away from seeing it stand out.

There's quite a large gap down each side of the glass, it's around 1" wide each side (maybe just under, 20mm or so). The angle into the fans you can be certain is through flow analysis as aesthetically it makes no odds. It's like a wind tunnel angle, my guess is that particular angle is optimal for non turbulent flow.

 

[Acerakis]

Given a total budget of £3000, here is the top-tier build I would go to play in 1440p.

I would avoid pre-assemblies, which are often poorly designed platforms.

Case
CORSAIR iCUE 5000X RGB MID TOWER GAMING CASE
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Eight Core CPU (4.2GHz-5.0GHz/104MB w/3D V-CACHE/AM5)
Motherboard
ASUS® TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS WIFI (AM5, DDR5, PCIe 5.0, Wi-Fi 6E)
Memory (RAM)
32GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR5 6000MHz (2 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
16GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 4070 Ti SUPER - HDMI, DP, LHR
Graphics Card Support Bracket
NONE (BRACKET INCLUDED AS STANDARD ON 4070 Ti / RX 7700 XT AND ABOVE)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
512GB SOLIDIGM P44 PRO GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 7000MB/sR, 4700MB/sW)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
2TB SOLIDIGM P41+ GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 4125MB/sR, 3325MB/sW)
Power Supply
CORSAIR 1200W RMx SHIFT SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1.5 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead, 1.0mm Core)
Processor Cooling
CORSAIR ICUE LINK H115i RGB HIGH PERFORMANCE CPU COOLER
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
ONBOARD 2.5Gbe LAN PORT
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 11 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Firefox™
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 4 to 6 working days
Price: £2,453.00 including VAT and Delivery
Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/amd-am5-pc/ThztJyNDfH/

Thank you. It says in the warnings that it is has 1200w power supply but only needs 750w. Is the 1200w choice anyway deliberate?

 

[SpyderTracks]

Thank you. It says in the warnings that it is has 1200w power supply but only needs 750w. Is the 1200w choice anyway deliberate?

It's simply letting you know the minimum you can get away with but you'd never configure a system that way, and it doesn't account for things like Transient spikes.

So ignore it.

 

[Ekans2011]

Thank you. It says in the warnings that it is has 1200w power supply but only needs 750w. Is the 1200w choice anyway deliberate?

Yes, PCS stocks a few ATX 3.1 power supplies, including the 750W RMe, 1200W RMx SHIFT, and a few more higher-tier options.

I believe the 1200W RMx SHIFT is the best option in terms of suitability and future upgradeability for this level of build.

The automatic configurator just adds the TDPs without considering transient spikes, unavoidable future upgrades, or the overall quality/efficiency of the power supply (which I personally consider to be critical for any self-respecting system).

As @Scott mentioned, if you want a more visually appealing rig, you can upgrade from the H115i LINK to the H150i LINK.

 

[Acerakis]

Cool, thank you all. Guess I will be going for that build but with H150i as suggested.

 

[ThyThy]

Difference of opinion from me.

The case recommended is bang on. It's a fantastic all around case which reviews very highly on airflow and all other tangible measurements. Presuming that a case with a glass front has less airflow with one with a mesh front isn't scientific at all. Sure, you can get better airflow cases, but there are diminishing returns once you get past optimal. There's dust to consider as well, and all manner of other metrics.

[...]

If you're going to give advice contrary to that already given, please site sources and justification. We all want to learn and we are all here to learn from each other. Your advice seems based on your own opinion though, rather than actual experience or evidence.

Hello,
I am fine if we have different opinions.
I do not understand however why you think I disagree with the advice given by Ekans (or you) and reply as if there was a single good configuration for OP's needs (or that his needs were exactly pinpointed without any doubt).

I was not saying that the 5000X would not be fine, especially for real-life usage. I was clear that my preference would be a more airflow-focused case. Truethfully, I find this design with a front glass ugly and just wanted OP to know that there exist other good cases if his tastes resemble mine. I see that he likes the 5000x and that's great for him; he quickly found what makes him happy.

Since you are asking for sources and justification:

There are some caveats to the test protocol, but at least they are scientific.
I've had a closer look at the fans included with the cases at Corsair's website. Surprisingly, the SP RGB Elite sold with the 5000X are less powerful than the AF RGB Elite sold with the 5000D Airflow (higher airflow range, with a higher max static pressure, although I'd like to see the full characterisitc curves).

There's dust to consider as well, and all manner of other metrics.

Of course. Speaking of dust, I'm not a fan of glass or glossy finishes because it makes dust more visible, and they are fingerprints magnets.
But again: to each their own.

1200w is the best option for the 4070Ti, 750w would be cutting it too fine and the 850w offering isn't ATX3.1.

1200W is a good choice for future proofing. But both Corsair and Asus recommend lower wattage PSUs for the 4070 Ti Super (it's the Super in Ekans config), even with much more power-hungry CPUs:

Recommended PSU Table | GPU Power Requirements | CORSAIR

At a glance table so you can find out what PSU wattage is needed for your GPU/CPU combination.

www.corsair.com

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/Accessory/Power_Supply/Manual/RECOMMENDED_PSU_TABLE.pdf

It's interesting to feed exact specs in the PSU calculator of Corsair.

This is why premium cases tend to cost a lot more, the materials are almost a negligible cost, it’s the R&D costs that need to be reclaimed that make up most of it

R&D may be among the larger parts of costs, although we may be surprised (marketing department likely huge). ;-)
However, we can be sure that branding is a good chunk of the price.

There's quite a large gap down each side of the glass, it's around 1" wide each side (maybe just under, 20mm or so). The angle into the fans you can be certain is through flow analysis as aesthetically it makes no odds. It's like a wind tunnel angle, my guess is that particular angle is optimal for non turbulent flow.

That gap (and angle) have some importance, but what is even more important is the gap between the fan blades and the front panel.
I'm a computational fluid dynamics specialist by trade, i.e. the kind of professional who prepare and analyse the flow simulations that SpyderTracks was referring to, although I'm using them for machines bearing more resemblance with a jet engine than a PC case.
I had the feeling that such a flow could not be laminar but wasn't sure so I made a calculation, since my preference also goes to evidence-based information.
My impression was right: the airflow in this gap, but also through the fan and around the main components, cannot be non turbulent (= laminar) even at the minimum speeds of that fans' case.
By the way, turbulent flow most often improves heat transfer, contrary to what I sometimes read/hear (and turbulence intensity increases with flow rate). There may be a confusion between turbulent flow regime (its scientific definition) and a flow which is tortuous. Maybe that's what you were referring to. A too tortuous flow in a PC case is indeed undesirable (even if it's more turbulent) because it can generate low speed recirculation zones ("dead zones") next to components and because it increases pressure drops, hence leads to a lower flow rate at a given fan speed.

I hope that's one more stone to build a bridge rather than a wall.

 

[SpyderTracks]

But both Corsair and Asus recommend lower wattage PSUs for the 4070 Ti Super (it's the Super in Ekans config), even with much more power-hungry CPUs:

Just to clarify nowhere ever recommends lower wattages, they suggest MINIMUM requirements, anyone who understands system design would never spec that low anyway if they're properly designing with the future in mind.

It’s really important to stress this as it’s a source for lots of misinterpretation, the message that pops up on PCS about PSU, people will often say “I got a warning my PSU was too powerful”, it doesn’t actually say anything if the sort, it’s merely pointing out for those on a strict budget that they could lower it and save money.

Same on nvidia / amd recommendations, or any board partner, they’re not saying “get this power PSU”, they’re saying that’s the minimum they’d recommend.

 

[SpyderTracks]

R&D may be among the larger parts of costs, although we may be surprised (marketing department likely huge). ;-)
However, we can be sure that branding is a good chunk of the price.

Actually, I would say it’s quite the opposite. If you look at any smaller company starting out, like Lian Li before the O11 Dynamic set them into the stratosphere, they didn’t make any mid range or entry level cases, mostof their cases were in the region of £450 - 600. That certainly wasn’t branding, that was because they were selling far smaller numbers.
Then the O11 hit, the Brand became a hit and the price reduced to £150ish, sales volumes went through the roof.

Same with Hyte, they’re very new to the market and cost more than the big name competitors while mainly using lesser quality components like plastics over metal. As they gain traction and the Brand becomes more recognised, the case cost to consumer reduces as volumes increase.

Same with InWin who are still doing very low volume high end cases, insane prices, but they haven’t found a mainstream seller yet.

Branding obviously has its place, but £20 of a case cost for the brand is very different than reclaiming multiple millions in R&D over a number of years

 

[Scott]

Hello,
I am fine if we have different opinions.
I do not understand however why you think I disagree with the advice given by Ekans (or you) and reply as if there was a single good configuration for OP's needs (or that his needs were exactly pinpointed without any doubt).

I was not saying that the 5000X would not be fine, especially for real-life usage. I was clear that my preference would be a more airflow-focused case. Truethfully, I find this design with a front glass ugly and just wanted OP to know that there exist other good cases if his tastes resemble mine. I see that he likes the 5000x and that's great for him; he quickly found what makes him happy.

Since you are asking for sources and justification:

There are some caveats to the test protocol, but at least they are scientific.
I've had a closer look at the fans included with the cases at Corsair's website. Surprisingly, the SP RGB Elite sold with the 5000X are less powerful than the AF RGB Elite sold with the 5000D Airflow (higher airflow range, with a higher max static pressure, although I'd like to see the full characterisitc curves).


Of course. Speaking of dust, I'm not a fan of glass or glossy finishes because it makes dust more visible, and they are fingerprints magnets.
But again: to each their own.


1200W is a good choice for future proofing. But both Corsair and Asus recommend lower wattage PSUs for the 4070 Ti Super (it's the Super in Ekans config), even with much more power-hungry CPUs:

Recommended PSU Table | GPU Power Requirements | CORSAIR

At a glance table so you can find out what PSU wattage is needed for your GPU/CPU combination.

www.corsair.com

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/Accessory/Power_Supply/Manual/RECOMMENDED_PSU_TABLE.pdf

It's interesting to feed exact specs in the PSU calculator of Corsair.


R&D may be among the larger parts of costs, although we may be surprised (marketing department likely huge). ;-)
However, we can be sure that branding is a good chunk of the price.


That gap (and angle) have some importance, but what is even more important is the gap between the fan blades and the front panel.
I'm a computational fluid dynamics specialist by trade, i.e. the kind of professional who prepare and analyse the flow simulations that SpyderTracks was referring to, although I'm using them for machines bearing more resemblance with a jet engine than a PC case.
I had the feeling that such a flow could not be laminar but wasn't sure so I made a calculation, since my preference also goes to evidence-based information.
My impression was right: the airflow in this gap, but also through the fan and around the main components, cannot be non turbulent (= laminar) even at the minimum speeds of that fans' case.
By the way, turbulent flow most often improves heat transfer, contrary to what I sometimes read/hear (and turbulence intensity increases with flow rate). There may be a confusion between turbulent flow regime (its scientific definition) and a flow which is tortuous. Maybe that's what you were referring to. A too tortuous flow in a PC case is indeed undesirable (even if it's more turbulent) because it can generate low speed recirculation zones ("dead zones") next to components and because it increases pressure drops, hence leads to a lower flow rate at a given fan speed.

I hope that's one more stone to build a bridge rather than a wall.

There's nothing wrong with the offer of the alternative aesthetic. My point was the way it was presented suggested that the 5000X wasn't going to offer good performance. As with everything, the wording and presentation of the information is key. Having read this post (which was a lot in honesty, not sure where that came from.... bit of an enigma) it's more clear that you don't like the 5000X for how it looks and not how it performs. The initial assertion of an airflow case made me think you were suggesting that a non airflow case wouldn't be suitable, rather than simply not fitting your visual preference.

For the 4070 Ti.... did you look at the Corsair recommendation? They actually recommend the 750w initially and then further down the page this increases to the 850w offering. Even there it's not really covering the bases if it's not ATX3.1 (which the PCS offerings aren't). Having been on the forum a number of years we see a number of issues relating to PSU selection, a number of which are regret to choosing a "just enough" psu for the build, without considering that we suggest designing a PC for 10 years, where the GPU utilisation is likely to increase. It's fine saying that you won't want to upgrade, but it's far better to spend the extra to cover that slim eventuality rather than being short later on. Even if you consider resale value, it's better for that as well. 1000w is the minimum I would have in a system nowadays, my preference is swinging to ATX3.1 though, and I would want at least 1000w again. The offerings from PCS are very limited so the 1200w Shift is always a firm favourite, not because of it being a requirement.... but because it covers 99% of current and future state use (within reason).

With regards to your profession, I don't think what you do should have any bearing on your opinion. The facts that you base your opinion on should be all that is ever required. I work in aerospace as well and I've been around the block. I previous sat in the test cell with those engines running metering the airflow. That's a very different beast though as you're attempting to maximise airflow and reduce turbulence (or direct it). With a PC, you're looking to balance the airflow, turbulence, acoustics and aesthetics. It's a very difficult thing to do and there are always compromises, my entire point with this particular case is that it has been proven to cover all of those areas in a balanced way that most wouldn't need to consider anything outside of it.

The Define 7 is a good example of a contrary opinion from me. It's a fantastic case that's well designed with a focus on acoustics. With an AIO in place it's a great case that can cover a multitude of audio uses etc. Where it would struggle is maxed out on the CPU and GPU, as it doesn't quite have the airflow for top end. I would always advise caution using this case for high end builds, but I have no issue recommending it for studio builds and the likes where the internal components match the cooling capacity of the case itself.

I don't make my recommendations blind or based on aesthetics. I make them based on experience, reading a ton of info and watching a ridiculous amount of reviews etc. Even when I do recommend, there's a certain element of calculation rather than knowledge, there aren't enough reviews in the world to cover every eventuality.

 

[SpyderTracks]

For the 4070 Ti.... did you look at the Corsair recommendation? They actually recommend the 750w initially and then further down the page this increases to the 850w offering. Even there it's not really covering the bases if it's not ATX3.1 (which the PCS offerings aren't). Having been on the forum a number of years we see a number of issues relating to PSU selection, a number of which are regret to choosing a "just enough" psu for the build, without considering that we suggest designing a PC for 10 years, where the GPU utilisation is likely to increase. It's fine saying that you won't want to upgrade, but it's far better to spend the extra to cover that slim eventuality rather than being short later on. Even if you consider resale value, it's better for that as well. 1000w is the minimum I would have in a system nowadays, my preference is swinging to ATX3.1 though, and I would want at least 1000w again. The offerings from PCS are very limited so the 1200w Shift is always a firm favourite, not because of it being a requirement.... but because it covers 99% of current and future state use (within reason).

Just following on from this, because IT'S SOOOO IMPORTANT!!!

I started building systems when I was about 23, built basic systems for myself (as had zero money) but built quite a few custom systems for friends, mainly in the audio and video editing spheres.

I learnt after a few builds that if you design a system properly, you extend the lifetime of that system significantly.

And the idea that any PC gamer is not going to want to upgrade if simply not understanding PC gaming requirements, it's not a choice, it's a necessary part of owning a custom gaming PC, you can't get away from that, with how fast games engines and platforms move alongside hardware improvements, unless you're only ever going to play the same games you own now 10 years in the future, YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO UPGRADE, the GPU being the first component that will need it.

This is imperative the younger the buyer is, a lot of people buying their first gaming PC's will be in school coming from console, or maybe at university, their life circumstances over the lifetime of that PC are going to change enormously from maybe a part-time job wage, or a student loan or something, up to suddenly earning a decent salary where £1000 for a GPU upgrade is totally within their reach.

Thinking of this, it's SOO important to account for their future, have that build support what MAY change in the future.

So many people start out gaming, and then get hooked into streaming, with that they're suddenly editing their videos before uploading, then they're doing image editing as well. People's needs, budget's and expectations change over a 10 year period. A sensible designer accounts for any eventuality because yes, you may spend £100 extra now, but you're saving yourself having to bin a perfectly good system or payout significant money on replacing parts simply because they were underpowered for your new usage requirements, rather than simply upgrading relevant parts.

A prime example is this poor person here: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/threads/pc-upgrade-advice.97911/

This should have been simply slotting in a new CPU and GPU, and that should have been it, they could have stepped up from a struggling 1080p system to a top end 1440p system with a monitor. As it is, the amount they'd have to replace made it not worth it and replacing the system is a better choice after only a couple of years owning it.