Elimina keyboard problems.

[roadcone]

I'll start by saying that this laptop has been returned once with this problem and sent back to me repaired ... but the problem persists. I'm sharing my findings in the hope that someone might have come across the issue. The spec is pasted at the end.

The dedicated cursor keys are 'dropping' seemingly random key codes some of the time when they are pressed. That is, if I repeatedly press a cursor key to move around a document, or if I press and hold a cursor key to move around, random things might happen. It might drop a number (4, 6 or 8, but so far, never a 2), it might cause Windows Menu to appear (the one that the WinKey enables).

I have been running KeyboardStateView from nirsoft.net and I have discovered that on some occasions, when the cursor keys are pressed repeatedly or pressed and held, other keys are also reported - sometimes just one key and on other occasions, a whole flock of keys. For my trials I made sure that once the software was running, I pressed only the four dedicated cursor keys (one at a time of course) - I did not press any other key. The software shows the key codes on screen against a time; I stopped pressing when it was noted that other key codes were dropped. Except for one example, the additional key codes always appeared before the cursor press in the list.

Examples:

1. While pressing the Left Arrow Key, the software reported Key Codes 255 (believed to be the power button) and 125 (reported as F14) were also pressed.
2. While pressing the Left Arrow key, the software reported Key Codes 170, 102, 100, 57, 125, 97 and 104 were also pressed.
3. While pressing the Right Arrow key, the software reported Key Code 255 was also pressed.
4. While pressing the Right Arrow key, the software reported Key Code 48 was also pressed.
5. This is an example of when the Menu / Search key is displayed. While pressing the Right Arrow Key, Key Codes 164, 162, 160, 18, 17, 16, 9, 125, and 57 were also reported and immediately afterwards, Key Codes 79 and finally, 170 Browser Search key.

Windows 11 is installed but the problem was present under the original Windows 10. I have the same software, OS and configuration running on a 14" Lafite and that performed flawlessly while the Elimina was away for four weeks being repaired.

Anyone got any ideas as to what is happening here?

Clive


Chassis & Display
Elimina Series: 15.6" Matte Full HD 144Hz 72% NTSC LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 Eight Core Processor 11800H (2.3GHz, 4.6GHz Turbo)
Memory (RAM)
64GB Corsair 2666MHz SODIMM DDR4 (2 x 32GB)
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® RTX 3060 - 6.0GB GDDR6 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1
1st M.2 SSD Drive
2TB CORSAIR MP400 NVMe PCIe M.2 SSD (up to 3480 MB/R, 3000 MB/W)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
4TB CORSAIR MP400 NVMe PCIe M.2 SSD (up to 3480 MB/R, 3000 MB/W)
1st Storage Drive
4TB Samsung 870 QVO 2.5" SSD, SATA 6Gb/s (up to 560MB/sR | 530MB/sW)
External Hard Drive
4TB Seagate One Touch External HDD, USB 3.0, Black
Memory Card Reader
Integrated 6 in 1 Card Reader (SD /Mini SD/ SDHC / SDXC / MMC / RSMMC)
AC Adaptor
1 x 180W AC Adaptor
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre Cloverleaf UK Power Cable
Battery
2 x Elimina Series 4 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card
2 Channel High Def. Audio + SoundBlaster™ Cinema
Wireless Network Card
GIGABIT LAN & WIRELESS INTEL® Wi-Fi 6 AX200 (2.4 Gbps) + BT 5.0
USB/Thunderbolt Options
1 x USB 3.2 PORT (Type C) + 2 x USB 3.2 PORTS + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT
Keyboard Language
MULTI COLOUR BACKLIT UK KEYBOARD
Operating System
Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Supplied on USB Drive
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Microsoft® Edge
Keyboard & Mouse
INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
Webcam
INTEGRATED 1MP HD WEBCAM

 

[SpyderTracks]

What did PCS do when you returned it? There should be a note on your RMA

If you're holding down keys you may have inadvertently kicked in sticky keys which is painfully annoying at the best of times and worth permanently disabling.

How to turn off Sticky Keys in Windows and disable the shortcut

If you keep turning on Sticky Keys by mistake, you can turn Sticky Keys off and disable the Windows shortcut altogether.

www.businessinsider.com

Have you tried a clean install of windows 11 to rule out a software issue?

 

[roadcone]

PCS updated the BIOS and because of a search problem (in both the original W10 and the upgraded W11) they reinstalled W10 complete. The technician 'said' he would replace the keyboard and motherboard but that is not recorded in the RMS so I'm betting he didn't.

When the laptop was returned I went through the W10 startup process and once that was complete and before installing a single thing, I went to the MS website and downloaded and installed the W11 upgrade.

I have gone into all accessibility settings and turned every sticky setting off - even to the point of turning on some, deselecting the otherwise greyed-out settings then turning it off again. In fact, I had turned off these settings in W10 also before upgrading to W11 before sending it back for 'repair'.

There is an odd thing that occurs in Spreadsheet which suggests sticky keys - normally, holding the cursor key moves you around the cells; when it gets in a mood it is as though the shift key has been held as it starts to select /highlight all the cells through which you move. You can't deselect them and pressing Esc does nothing but I have found that holding the shift key down for a few seconds clears the problem. But I assure you that in Windows settings, sticky keys are disabled.

 

[SpyderTracks]

PCS updated the BIOS and because of a search problem (in both the original W10 and the upgraded W11) they reinstalled W10 complete. The technician 'said' he would replace the keyboard and motherboard but that is not recorded in the RMS so I'm betting he didn't.

When the laptop was returned I went through the W10 startup process and once that was complete and before installing a single thing, I went to the MS website and downloaded and installed the W11 upgrade.

I have gone into all accessibility settings and turned every sticky setting off - even to the point of turning on some, deselecting the otherwise greyed-out settings then turning it off again. In fact, I had turned off these settings in W10 also before upgrading to W11 before sending it back for 'repair'.

There is an odd thing that occurs in Spreadsheet which suggests sticky keys - normally, holding the cursor key moves you around the cells; when it gets in a mood it is as though the shift key has been held as it starts to select /highlight all the cells through which you move. You can't deselect them and pressing Esc does nothing but I have found that holding the shift key down for a few seconds clears the problem. But I assure you that in Windows settings, sticky keys are disabled.

I would do a clean install to rule out software, if it's still present then I'd contact PCS again. But I'd be fairly sure an issue like this would be software related, although the TongFangs do have a history of keyboard issues, so not ruling out the keyboard itself.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Actually, before windows reinstall, can you post a screenshot of your optional drivers in windows update?

 

[roadcone]

TongFang? Clevo surely? SysInfo reports baseboard Clevo. Have I inadvertently pasted the spec of the one I sent back for a refund? Can't have as that one had a higher resolution screen.

Um - where do I find the optional drivers in Windows update please?

 

[SpyderTracks]

TongFang? Clevo surely? SysInfo reports baseboard Clevo. Have I inadvertently pasted the spec of the one I sent back for a refund? Can't have as that one had a higher resolution screen.

Um - where do I find the optional drivers in Windows update please?

In windows update, click on advanced options, that displays optional updates which are all system drivers.

 

[roadcone]

OK - thanks.

Intel Corp - Bluetooth - 22.100.1.1
Intel - net - 22.70.0.6

I'd be reluctant to perform a clean install for two reasons - one selfish. It has taken me over a week to install and reconfigure to get to this stage. Also, the original install was W10 and all the downloadable software from PCL refer only to W10. A clean install would presumably trash all the PCS / Clevo supplied / installed software and drivers. Though, in fairness, they appear to work with W11 ... unless it is one of those that is causing the problem ... no ... I had the same problems under W10.

Oh bum!

Clive

 

[SpyderTracks]

OK - thanks.

Intel Corp - Bluetooth - 22.100.1.1
Intel - net - 22.70.0.6

I'd be reluctant to perform a clean install for two reasons - one selfish. It has taken me over a week to install and reconfigure to get to this stage. Also, the original install was W10 and all the downloadable software from PCL refer only to W10. A clean install would presumably trash all the PCS / Clevo supplied / installed software and drivers. Though, in fairness, they appear to work with W11 ... unless it is one of those that is causing the problem ... no ... I had the same problems under W10.

Oh bum!

Clive

A windows install only takes 30 minutes.

It's the only way to rule out if it's a software issue.

If it's the non-pro model then it is indeed a clevo and any drivers are on www.clevo.com.tw but normally windows 10 drivers work fine in 11.

Clevo anyway, tend to get all relevant drivers (aside from GPU and control center) from windows update, so you don't need to install any.

 

[roadcone]

Yes, the install doesn't take long - its reinstalling all the application software, getting Windows and all the apps configured just the way you wan that takes the time. And having to visit websites to remove the computer from the licence list to enable it to be reinstalled - loads of stupid stuff like that. Oh - and where is the email login password!

Yes, not the Pro. Mm - going to listen to Friday's News Quiz and a couple of episodes of More or Less and will think about where to go from here. Thank you for your input. The good news is that it's not something stupid I've done. The bad news is that it's not something stupid I've done!

Clive

 

[SpyderTracks]

Yes, the install doesn't take long - its reinstalling all the application software, getting Windows and all the apps configured just the way you wan that takes the time. And having to visit websites to remove the computer from the licence list to enable it to be reinstalled - loads of stupid stuff like that. Oh - and where is the email login password!

Yes, not the Pro. Mm - going to listen to Friday's News Quiz and a couple of episodes of More or Less and will think about where to go from here. Thank you for your input. The good news is that it's not something stupid I've done. The bad news is that it's not something stupid I've done!

Clive

If it's is software, then it's likely something that's been installed, some program or perhaps a nasty that's embedded in something you're installing. This is fairly easy to diagnose by being mindful and testing after each install, making sure sources are trustworthy.

But it's only by doing a clean install that you'll be able to know which way to proceed, via RMA or finding the source of the bug.

What AV are you using?

What is it that you're having to reinstall and configure? There may be a better way of doing it.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Just additionally, you shouldn't have to deregister anything related to website records of installation from a windows reinstall so long as you're doing it correctly as nothing's changed.

The two metrics that website trackers of installations go by are either hardware ID, which doesn't change with a windows reinstall, or PC name, which you'd normally set during windows config. So long as those are the same, it's recognised as exactly the same PC and won't take up another license slot.

Unless you're talking about crypto tied installation like with iLok or something?

 

[SpyderTracks]

And of course, I forgot the most basic test which will prove if it's software or hardware, you don't need to do a clean install.

Just plugin an external keyboard. If the same symptoms persist, then it's a software issue. If not, it's a hardware issue.

 

[roadcone]

External keyboard - Good thinking Batman! I have a compact dongle-wifi keyboard but that does not have dedicated cursor keys so ... this morning I ran the monitoring software and was unable to produce the fault on the laptop keyboard with numlock off even though the key codes are the same. With numlock back on, the dedicated keys cause problems. Having experienced a problem, turning off numlock and trying the numbered arrows don't reproduce a problem. I don't have a full sized keyboard so will have to get one because this suggests that using the compact one I have won't necessarily prove anything.

This morning the right cursor key has brought up my web browser to an empty window. Just before coming here I had to close five empty 2windows!

I've left the '2' in the previous paragraph as an indication of moving down the text using the down arrow dropped a '2' on the way.

Your comments about reinstalling software and serial codes is mostly correct, but not for my photographic software Capture One - that seems temperamental and got fussy when I reinstalled it on the returned 'repaired' laptop - it told me I had exceeded the number of 'seats'. Unhelpfully, Capture One's website lists the computers as Computer 1, 2 and 3 and gives no indication which is which. This necessitates removing all seats from their list and re-registering all three computers.

 

[SpyderTracks]

that seems temperamental and got fussy when I reinstalled it on the returned 'repaired' laptop

Yes, but had you changed the PC name? If the PC name was not changed to the same as it was before the reinstall, it would have recognised it as a different device.

 

[roadcone]

Ah - that would be it. No, I hadn't, but PCS must have when they reinstalled the OS because the name was very different.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Ah - that would be it. No, I hadn't, but PCS must have when they reinstalled the OS because the name was very different.

When you install windows it assigns a random unique pc name. PCS would never change this, why would they, they don't know what your old pc was called or if you'd set it manually. It's up to the user to configure windows to their requirements. Part of windows configuration is setting the PC name as required. Most people are fine with a random one, it's only if you've got licenses like this or networking preconfigured that you'd need to set a specific pc name.

But for your uses going forward I would set a static pc name and make sure you change it with any windows reinstall, that will significantly help going forwards

 

[roadcone]

That all makes sense. I'll keep the name it has and if it goes back for repair (it has to really, I think) then if the name has changed by a new install I'll change it back to what it is presently. I really don't have any preference for what it is called and changing a name creates new problems. Thanks.

Clive

 

[SpyderTracks]

That all makes sense. I'll keep the name it has and if it goes back for repair (it has to really, I think) then if the name has changed by a new install I'll change it back to what it is presently. I really don't have any preference for what it is called and changing a name creates new problems. Thanks.

Clive

What I do is set something that makes sense to me on my network, you can call it whatever you want, Pete 1, Laptop, beast. But on each install I change the name back to that. That way any license sees it as the same device.

 

[roadcone]

Spyder - your advice so far has been helpful so I'd be grateful for a (hopefully) final piece of advice.

The problem laptop has been returned and they have verified the problem. I asked for either (a) a like-for-like replacement or (b) a refund. PCS has confirmed their preparedness to offer a refund and advise that they cannot offer a like replacement as they are not available. I have looked at their alternatives and for what I believe is an equivalent Clevo build I appear to have only a Destian with either an Intel or AMD processor - the other specs appear identical to the one I have returned (64GB RAM, 2TB SSD system and 2x4TB SSD storage, 1920x1080 / 15" / 72% NTSC screen, 6GB GPU). So, to the questions (1) is it Clevo; (2) Intel or AMD [my small Lafite is Intel and my Desktop is AMD and I am happy with both] and (3) any reason to be cautious of Destian as a range?

And if not, what would you suggest? At a pinch, there is a Defiance but the Intel processor has fewer cores (suggesting older and / or less capable) and it takes only two disks but I can largely overcome that with 'just' 2x4TB).

Thank you.

Clive