5950x vs 12900k Dilemma

[PauFen]

Hi All, I'm just hoping for some advice and thoughts on this subject. I recently ordered a 5950x build which is still in pre-production but due to enter the building stage sometime next week. I ordered it before the performance of Intel chip had been reported and I don't think that it was even available as a pre-order option here at the time, so AMD seemed like the obvious choice. I'm just debating whether I'd be better off cancelling my order and switching to the new Intel chip (PCS said that I could do this, but that it would place me at the back of the line again, which isn't the end of the world).

The reported performance gains aren't really the main issue, rather it's the fact that it's a newer architecture with support for DDR5 and PCIE-5 and I'm very late to the AM4 platform. On the other hand, I'm a bit concerned by the heat and power implications of the Intel chips, early adoption is often not without headaches and PCS are currently only offering 32gb of DDR5 Ram with such builds, and ideally I wanted at least 64gb (video editing, 3D modelling etc).

I have a couple of projects that I really need to start around Christmas, so waiting an unknown amount of time into the New Year isn't really an option (I'm currently on a 7700K, which has served me well but was itself a dead-end chipset). Price wise, there's about £20 between the two configurations, both coming in at around £3.5k.

What would you do? (besides wait for the Ryzen refresh )

 

[PauFen]

BTW, I'm not primarily a gamer, so I'm thinking in terms of productivity and there may be instances when the 5950x's multi-threading is actually preferable.

 

[Martinr36]

Personally I think I'd stay with the known and proven 5950x

 

[sck451]

What would you do? (besides wait for the Ryzen refresh )

I'd wait for the Ryzen refresh!

If it's not time-critical, that's 100% the thing to do. If it is, you can't really go wrong. I'd go for 5950X because the platform is that bit more mature and you can get better cooling right now, but neither option is a bad one; neither is really a compromise.

 

[SpyderTracks]

For raw power the aintel will beat it, that's off you u can get Optimum performance as you'd have to have a 360mm radiator. But for raw performance the Intel is the better option.

But then there may well be stability issues with the new chipset, they're still working on bugs both in Windows 10 and 11. They're working on 11 first before addressing 10.

 

[PauFen]

Personally I think I'd stay with the known and proven 5950x

Thanks Martinr36. Yes, that's really sound reasoning and in truth, the build that I ordered is pretty close to my dream machine and will serve me very well for a good number of years regardless. It's just the prospect of being locked out of PCI-E 5 which gives me pause.

 

[PauFen]

I'd wait for the Ryzen refresh!

If it's not time-critical, that's 100% the thing to do. If it is, you can't really go wrong. I'd go for 5950X because the platform is that bit more mature and you can get better cooling right now, but neither option is a bad one; neither is really a compromise.

Yeah, unfortunately it kind of is (for work). I would have upgraded much earlier in the year were it not for the crazy market. As I said in response to Martin, the 5950x that I ordered will undoubtedly be a dream machine for me in any case. It's just thrown a bit of a spanner in the works. I always seem to be in this position at the worst time in the cycle.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Yeah, unfortunately it kind of is (for work). I would have upgraded much earlier in the year were it not for the crazy market. As I said in response to Martin, the 5950x that I ordered will undoubtedly be a dream machine for me in any case. It's just thrown a bit of a spanner in the works. I always seem to be in this position at the worst time in the cycle.

I would personally stick with Ryzen, the performamce is only marginally less.

 

[PauFen]

For raw power the aintel will beat it, that's off you u can get Optimum performance as you'd have to have a 360mm radiator. But for raw performance the Intel is the better option.

But then there may well be stability issues with the new chipset, they're still working on bugs both in Windows 10 and 11. They're working on 11 first before addressing 10.

Thanks SpyderTracks - yes, my Intel config would have a corsair h150i in the Coolmaster Master Sl600m case I think (opted for a 500D case for my 5950x order, which would only house a 280mm rad). The lower power consumption on AMD is quite a compelling plus for me as well. It's tricky.

 

[JUNI0R]

will undoubtedly be a dream machine for me in any case

I think this is the right view to have. Yes the 12900K will be marginally quicker but it doesn't take away from how absolutely balistic the 5950X is- I think it's pretty easy to get caught up in all that when you spend 10 hours a say watching reviews of them both I promise that's sarcasm.

Plus, the Ryzen refresh is due to be compatible with AM4 before AM5 and DDR5 comes out later next year (think 5950XT sorta thing) so you should still have an upgrade path in case you somehow find the 5950X lacking in anyway

Would be good to see the full 5950X spec so we can give it a once over if you'd be happy to share

 

[PauFen]

I would personally stick with Ryzen, the performamce is only marginally less.

Yeah, and from what I've heard the Ryzen might even have a very slight edge when utilizing heavy multi-threading. The main concern for me is the prospect of future developments with DDR5 and PCI-E 5 GPUs. But yes, I think you may be right - you can drive yourself nuts trying to chase the latest developments rather than simply aiming for what you need.

 

[DarTon]

If you were looking to buy in 3 months, preferably 6 months, then the 12900K might well be the way to go. Problem is by then you'd be asking "shall I cancel the 12900K to go for the AMD 5950X with the V cache ...".

Buying Alder Lake now risks being too much on the bleeding edge, rather than the leading edge. Weekly BIOS updates to the 690 boards to fix problems. Random software crashes. You're the unpaid guinea pig for Intel and Microsoft. You're also buying in to a transition generation. You need to make sure that the specific software you use can take advantage of those E cores. You don't want to depend on that software being updated instantly. Time is money and you have to weigh up the potential productivity gains from Aldur-Lake vs. the downside risk of not being able to complete the work due to trying to sort out issues around the PC. It's safer to go with what works.

DDR5 and PCIe5 is definately something that helps "future proof" but if we go back to the transition between DDR3/DDR4 and PCIe3/PCIe4, it was hardly instant. The DDR5 RAM you get now will look nothing like what you'll be able to get in 12-18 months in terms of frequency or latency (or price!). There are no PCIe5 GPUs or SSDs to buy. cPlus we're only just starting to taking real world advantage of PCIe4. It might be years before you need PCIe5.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Yeah, and from what I've heard the Ryzen might even have a very slight edge when utilizing heavy multi-threading. The main concern for me is the prospect of future developments with DDR5 and PCI-E 5 GPUs. But yes, I think you may be right - you can drive yourself nuts trying to chase the latest developments rather than simply aiming for what you need.

If you want DDR5 you have to have a DDR5 board, you can't order a DDR4 system and then upgrade to DDR5 once it's normal pricing as the two aren't compatible. DDR5 boards are STUPIDLY expensive atm as is DDR5, literally double what normal stocks are.

PCIe 5 as well will likely offer benefits for storage, but unlikely for graphics in the time before you upgrade.

 

[PauFen]

I've been having nightmares about benchmark charts, waking up in cold sweats. @Junior Yes, happy to share - I did run it past the forums. After I made the recommended amendments to my order though, they weren't reflected in the link that I can share here for some reason (they show on my actual order page and I paid the extra). Here's the copy-and-pasted config with my changes added manually:

Case
CORSAIR OBSIDIAN SERIES™ 500D SE CASE
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16 Core CPU (3.4GHz-4.9GHz/72MB CACHE/AM4)
Motherboard
ASUS® CROSSHAIR VIII HERO WIFI (DDR4, PCIe 4.0, CrossFireX/SLI) - RGB Ready!
Memory (RAM)
64GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3200MHz (4 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
10GB ASUS TUF GAMING GEFORCE RTX 3080 - HDMI, DP
1st Storage Drive
2TB SEAGATE BARRACUDA SATA-III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 7200RPM, 256MB CACHE (just a storage dump)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
1TB SAMSUNG 980 PRO M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 7000MB/R, 5000MB/W)
2nd M.2 SSD Drive
2TB FIRECUDA 530 GEN 4 M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 7300MB/R, 6000MB/W)
Power Supply
CORSAIR 1000W RMx SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
Corsair H115i RGB PRO XT Hydro Series High Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste
Standard Paste
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
USB/Thunderbolt Options
2 PORT (2 x TYPE A) USB 3.1 PCI-E CARD + STANDARD USB PORTS
Operating System
Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Microsoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)

 

[PauFen]

If you were looking to buy in 3 months, preferably 6 months, then the 12900K might well be the way to go. Problem is by then you'd be asking "shall I cancel the 12900K to go for the AMD 5950X with the V cache ...".

Buying Alder Lake now risks being too much on the bleeding edge, rather than the leading edge. Weekly BIOS updates to the 690 boards to fix problems. Random software crashes. You're the unpaid guinea pig for Intel and Microsoft. You're also buying in to a transition generation. You need to make sure that the specific software you use can take advantage of those E cores. You don't want to depend on that software being updated instantly.

DDR5 and PCIe5 is definately something that helps "future proof" but if we go back to the transition between DDR3/DDR4 and PCIe3/PCIe4, it was hardly instant. The DDR5 RAM you get now will look nothing like what you'll be able to get in 12-18 months in terms of frequency or latency (or price!). You'll probably be buying a new 64GB of better DDR5 then and the old RAM will be binned (and the cost wasted). There are no PCIe5 GPUs or SSDs to buy (at least for retail). When they do arrive, are you sure the 690 board you've chosen will be the ideal choice? Or will you regret not choosing another one? Who knows. Plus we're only just starting to taking real world advantage of PCIe4. It might be years before you need PCIe5.

Thanks Darton - all excellent points.

 

[JUNI0R]

I've been having nightmares about benchmark charts, waking up in cold sweats. @Junior Yes, happy to share - I did run it past the forums. After I made the recommended amendments to my order though, they weren't reflected in the link that I can share here for some reason (they show on my actual order page and I paid the extra). Here's the copy-and-pasted config with my changes added manually:

Case
CORSAIR OBSIDIAN SERIES™ 500D SE CASE
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16 Core CPU (3.4GHz-4.9GHz/72MB CACHE/AM4)
Motherboard
ASUS® CROSSHAIR VIII HERO WIFI (DDR4, PCIe 4.0, CrossFireX/SLI) - RGB Ready!
Memory (RAM)
64GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3200MHz (4 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
10GB ASUS TUF GAMING GEFORCE RTX 3080 - HDMI, DP
1st Storage Drive
2TB SEAGATE BARRACUDA SATA-III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 7200RPM, 256MB CACHE (just a storage dump)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
1TB SAMSUNG 980 PRO M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 7000MB/R, 5000MB/W)
2nd M.2 SSD Drive
2TB FIRECUDA 530 GEN 4 M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 7300MB/R, 6000MB/W)
Power Supply
CORSAIR 1000W RMx SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
Corsair H115i RGB PRO XT Hydro Series High Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste
Standard Paste
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
USB/Thunderbolt Options
2 PORT (2 x TYPE A) USB 3.1 PCI-E CARD + STANDARD USB PORTS
Operating System
Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Microsoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)

Looks solid 👌 I'd adjust stroage slightly (500GB OS and Gen 3 secondary SSD instead of Gen4) and question if you need the USB card (you have 14 on the mobo and case combined already 😂) but otherwise it's perfect We'll need to see pics when it arrives

 

[PauFen]

If you want DDR5 you have to have a DDR5 board, you can't order a DDR4 system and then upgrade to DDR5 once it's normal pricing as the two aren't compatible. DDR5 boards are STUPIDLY expensive atm as is DDR5, literally double what normal stocks are.

Yes, the price of a i9 12900k system with 32-gb DDR5 RAM + compatible motherboard here on PCS comes to around the same price as my 5950x order (actually £20 cheaper - I went for 64gb DDR4 with the 5950x). That's what I mean about opting for a 5950x board - no prospect of DDR5 or PCI-E 5 without a new MB/CPU.

 

[PauFen]

Looks solid 👌 I'd adjust stroage slightly (500GB OS and Gen 3 secondary SSD instead of Gen4) and question if you need the USB card (you have 14 on the mobo and case combined already 😂) but otherwise it's perfect We'll need to see pics when it arrives

Thanks Junior - for most users that would be really sound advice, but I struggle with my 500gb OS/app M2 currently (I use lots of creative software, programming APIs etc). I have a tonne of USB enabled synthesizers, audio and midi devices and a Rift headset to fill those USB ports with, you'd be surprised. I went for the fast secondary drive to use for video editing etc. It's mainly a creative machine rather than a gaming machine (although I enjoy a bit of that as well) - actually, I'm learning Unreal/VR development and my issues working on and baking complex scenes is one of the main reasons for the upgrade. I'm on a i7 7700k currently, so its a huge upgrade for me.

 

[PauFen]

PCIe 5 as well will likely offer benefits for storage, but unlikely for graphics in the time before you upgrade.

Yes, that's probably true.