3080 rethink

[rouchie]

Hi all,

I know I am getting close, currently on 69 days, but I am starting to rethink whether I really need the 3080? in my original post https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/threads/looking-for-a-new-pc.79188/ several points were made that with my monitor, a 32inch Samsung G7 curved , a 3080 was not strictly necessary and maybe i should beef up my CPU instead. I use the PC for gaming, browsing, listening to music etc and I have a 4tb hdd I want to incorporate which holds my music and photos.

I would appreciate your thoughts one more time to help me in my decision making - any suggestion welcome

My current spec also has 4x Corsair LL120 RGB LED Fan + Controller Kit and 2 of the stock fans will be removed


Case
CORSAIR 4000D AIRFLOW TEMPERED GLASS GAMING CASE
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X Eight Core CPU (3.8GHz-4.7GHz/36MB CACHE/AM4)
Motherboard
ASUS® TUF X570-PLUS GAMING (USB 3.2 Gen 2, PCIe 4.0, CrossFireX) - ARGB Ready!
Memory (RAM)
32GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3200MHz (2 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
10GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 3080 - HDMI, DP
1st Storage Drive
2TB SEAGATE BARRACUDA SATA-III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 7200RPM, 256MB CACHE
1st M.2 SSD Drive
500GB SAMSUNG 980 PRO M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 6900MB/R, 5000MB/W)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
1TB PCS PCIe M.2 SSD (2000 MB/R, 1100 MB/W)
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CORSAIR 850W RMx SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
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Corsair H100i RGB PLATINUM Hydro Series High Performance CPU Cooler
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[Scott]

The G7 has enough headroom in the frequency to comfortably handle the 3080. The key is going to be where you want to land in frequency above 100hz. If you're after 200fps the only choice is the 3080. I don't know what that will add to your gaming experience though, it would net exactly zero for me personally.

IMO anything over 100hz is gravy. Around 120hz being the sweet spot. 144hz monitors tend to cover this bracket quite nicely and to hit your target inside that you want the 3070 to have a good visual experience. The 3060Ti would get you there too, but you would need to dial things down a little bit to stay over 100hz. The queue for the 3060ti is ridiculous too I believe, so it really only leaves the 3070 as a viable alternative to speed things up.

Personally, I would recommend saving the cash and dropping to the 3070. Put the cash in a bank and get the 4060 when it comes out, it'll be more powerful than the 3070, cheaper and have the next gen Raytracing, dlss3.0, unreal5.0 etc.

 

[loso64]

Put the cash in a bank and get the 4060 when it comes out, it'll be more powerful than the 3070, cheaper and have the next gen Raytracing, dlss3.0, unreal5.0 etc.

i dont think that would be best buy, the power difference between xx70 of one gen and xx60 of next gen is usually similar or minimal difference. There would be really really marginal improvement in doing that upgrade if at all. Example is 3060 vs 2070, 2070 is still 8% faster.

Would be different if you said save the money and next year upgrade to 4070 maybe. On top of that, dlss3.0 is just a speculation, suggesting advice based on possibility that will happen and will only be available to 40xx cards is not good advise. dlss3.0 will more than likely be available to 30xx series too, same for unreal support

Just to make it clear, the advice to save money and go for 3070, is good. Saying to buy 4060 next gen, not so much, a.k.a do upgrades, not sidegrades

 

[Scott]

My suggestion was aimed at the status quo, more than an upgrade.

The 3060 isn't really the successor to the 2060 for example. The 3060Ti is more the successor, with the 3060 being a productivity hybrid. With that in mind, I think you will note a more marked improvement between the 2070 and the 3060Ti.

Your points are very valid though, my suggestion was somewhat cryptic.

Value wise... it would be sound. If we use your example:

If you had bought a 2070 at £500 instead of a 2080 at £700 2.5 years ago, you would have saved £200.

Stored in the cookie jar until today.

If you then purchased a 3060ti £400 and then sold your 2070, which would EASILY sell for £350 you would still be £150 better off. You would have the newest tech and you would have a reasonable jump in performance.

Of course that would be to remain at the status quo of performance. If you wanted to actually upgrade, you would keep the same model path which would mean the 3070. Priced at around £550 this upgrade would put you at an offset of £50.

Not so bad when you get your timing right.

Opting for the 2080 to begin with would have been the wrong call. By the time you saw the performance of the 3060Ti at 1440p you should be crying at the £200 overspend that's netted you nothing but less features than the 3060ti.

The only saving grace is the 2nd hand market as the cards are so valuable right now.

 

[DarTon]

I went for the 3070.

My monitors vary from 4k 60Hz to 1440bp 165Hz. I run the latter at 120Hz since I can't tell the difference between 120 and 165. I find the 3070 works fine on the games I play at both 4k 60Hz and 1440p 120Hz. I have to dial down the settings from ultra to high and tweak them a bit to achieve that but I really can't tell the difference. It's the last 5-10% in eye candy terms.

Now, I'm virtually dead (aged late 40s). I even need reading glasses. So my eyesight/reactions aren't up to the standards of these young uns who require a nailed on 240Hz. Moreover, eye candy is probably only 20% of why I play the games I do. So that last 5-10% of eye candy x 20% eye candy weighting means it's 1-2% of the actual experience for me. YMMV.

Cost wasn't an issue. Buying a PC is a rounding error in my life (send your children to private school and you'll understand). So I could have bought a 3080. It just felt "unnecessary". At the time I ordered by 3070-3080 spread was £250 so I felt the 3070 was better value. It narrowed at one point to £125. I might have gone for the 3080 then. Right now the spread on the PCS configurator is about £380 which is silly. So it depends what you get back by switching down and how much time matters to you.

With regard to CPU, I went intially for a 5800X and then switched to a 5900X for £90 more. I tend toward the idea that the 5800X would have been fine. At least, however, the 5900X gives me some benefit for work purposes all day long, five days a week. Plus I'm on my 4th custom PC and I've never swapped out the CPU. I have swapped out GPUs; it's trivial by comparison.

 

[rouchie]

I went for the 3070.

My monitors vary from 4k 60Hz to 1440bp 165Hz. I run the latter at 120Hz since I can't tell the difference between 120 and 165. I find the 3070 works fine on the games I play at both 4k 60Hz and 1440p 120Hz. I have to dial down the settings from ultra to high and tweak them a bit to achieve that but I really can't tell the difference. It's the last 5-10% in eye candy terms.

Now, I'm virtually dead (aged late 40s). I even need reading glasses. So my eyesight/reactions aren't up to the standards of these young uns who require a nailed on 240Hz. Moreover, eye candy is probably only 20% of why I play the games I do. So that last 5-10% of eye candy x 20% eye candy weighting means it's 1-2% of the actual experience for me. YMMV.

Cost wasn't an issue. Buying a PC is a rounding error in my life (send your children to private school and you'll understand). So I could have bought a 3080. It just felt "unnecessary". At the time I ordered by 3070-3080 spread was £250 so I felt the 3070 was better value. It narrowed at one point to £125. I might have gone for the 3080 then. Right now the spread on the PCS configurator is about £380 which is silly. So it depends what you get back by switching down and how much time matters to you.

With regard to CPU, I went intially for a 5800X and then switched to a 5900X for £90 more. I tend toward the idea that the 5800X would have been fine. At least, however, the 5900X gives me some benefit for work purposes all day long, five days a week. Plus I'm on my 4th custom PC and I've never swapped out the CPU. I have swapped out GPUs; it's trivial by comparison.

If you are virtually dead in your late 40s I am calling from the otherside! The cost difference for me to drop from the 3080 to the 3070 is £198 inc VAT so the cost implications isn't really a factor, what benefit would upping the cpu and lowering the GPU offer in gaming terms?

 

[loso64]

If you are virtually dead in your late 40s I am calling from the otherside! The cost difference for me to drop from the 3080 to the 3070 is £198 inc VAT so the cost implications isn't really a factor, what benefit would upping the cpu and lowering the GPU offer in gaming terms?

well, cpu is usually what lasts in your pc for longer than gpu does (you change gpu at least once in span of a pc lifetime)

Better CPU, especially when upping from 5800 to 5900 (not huge price for 50% more cores and double the cache), will provide you snappier experience all around, not only gaming, but multi tasking, browsing, opening apps, etc. Having faster CPU also means you can have a lot more stuff running in the background before it negatively affects your gaming.

Now regards CPU, yes 8 Core is more than enough nowadays. But 5 years ago, having 4 Core was good enough, 6 core like 8700k 4 years ago was super high end. Nowadays? 6 core is getting mainstream everywhere, heck the ryzen 5 is 6 core. bunch of i5 are 6 core now too.
The new consoles are 8 core now, those game ported to PC will start requiring more CPU count as games are starting to get optimized for high core count (warzone for example can utilize all cores, even 16 core r9 5950x). It is just a question of time when 8 core will already be the gold standard. Also console games are usually better optimized as they have only one single configuration, whether pc has multiple configs and especially a lot more running in background. Cores are even more needed on PC.

It is just speculation, but in 5 years, you could easily see 12 core being the standard for pc. If you can afford 5900x, i would go for it. Price difference is not huge for that much of a bump (80-90 dollars?). All around having 12 core might not result in immediate better gaming results (on older games), but it will allow for better user experience of the PC as a whole with potential of it lasting longer and new games utilizing more cores as the true next gen games come out.
5950x on other hand, unless you do rendering or other production where you really need all the processing power is just not worth the huge 250 dollar bump for 33% core increase.

PS. before anyone starts bashing me this is if you can afford the cost and don't care about spending more. For budget builds, the preference might differ.

 

[DarTon]

I don't see that 12 cores would offer much right now. As far as I can tell, very few games really use more than 6-8 cores effectively. I've experimented with my Total War games (considered more CPU bound than most) and the other stuff I play and I don't see the extra 4 cores being used on the 5900X.

With all the new consoles based on 8 core custom AMD Zen 2, I think we can assume that games will be increasingly optimized for that. So a 5800X is as good as you want for the next few years. The 5900X might be a bit more future proofed if consoles move up to 12-16 core etc in the next gen but who knows. We might all be buying ARM by then! It feels that at 1440p or better, you're still GPU bound not CPU bound so the money should go there.

That's only for gaming though. I often run my work VMs alongside a game during the evening and I've found that's where the 5900X has an advantage. Basically the game is using the 8 cores and the additional 4 cores are running my work.

 

[loso64]

I don't see that 12 cores would offer much right now. As far as I can tell, very few games really use more than 6-8 cores effectively. I've experimented with my Total War games (considered more CPU bound than most) and the other stuff I play and I don't see the extra 4 cores being used on the 5900X.

With all the new consoles based on 8 core custom AMD Zen 2, I think we can assume that games will be increasingly optimized for that. So a 5800X is as good as you want for the next few years. The 5900X might be a bit more future proofed if consoles move up to 12-16 core etc in the next gen but who knows. We might all be buying ARM by then! It feels that at 1440p or better, you're still GPU bound not CPU bound so the money should go there.

That's only for gaming though. I often run my work VMs alongside a game during the evening and I've found that's where the 5900X has an advantage. Basically the game is using the 8 cores and the additional 4 cores are running my work.

indeed, gaming wise the core count is not really that noticeable if at all. But PC is not just for gaming, it is for work or multitasking, especially if you are running multiple monitor setup, that is where 5900x shines. That extra core count results in just snappier feel to the whole pc.
5900x is in my opinion great value for money, if you can afford it. For pure gaming tho, especially running 1440p or 4k, most games are GPU bound at those resolution, even 5600x in most games is more than enough.
Very few games do utilize core count. One game i know does is Warzone, that said, we have yet to see true next gen games, properly optimized for new consoles and then ported to pc, the core count utilization situation might change.

 

[loso64]

Oh speaking of games and core count, the new battlefield 2042 that was revealed yesterday will have 128 player maps. Now there is where i think high core count will shine. Processing all that info of all the players on the server, several times a second is a lot of data to go through. Old consoles will be limited to 64 players and smaller maps, as they cant handle it. Only pc and new consoles will have 128 player maps. Same thing happened with BF3 back then, ps3 and old xbox had only 24 player maps, where pc and new consoles had 64

 

[rouchie]

I will only use my pc for gaming and leisure, I have another set up for work

 

[loso64]

I will only use my pc for gaming and leisure, I have another set up for work

well if you got two PCs, then most likely 5800x will be more than enough for gaming only and slight multi tasking. But the points i made still apply, right now it might not be utilized, we have yet to see true next gen games on pc. BF2042 might be a good example (even tho not true next gen). And if money is not an issue, i still think 5900x is a good value for the price increase.

 

[rouchie]

Point well made @loso64, and if I decide to drop to 3070 I will heed you advice, but I am not yet convinced I should drop on the card, I may even up my CPU after payday regardless

 

[rouchie]

If I do change my CPU to the 5900x will I need to change anything else in my configuration?

 

[Scott]

Personally I would want the strix motherboard, but that would be purely because I would want it..... rather than being necessary. The tighter voltages will help with higher multi-core boosting.

 

[loso64]

yeah as Scott said, i would up the Mobo to Strix

 

[rouchie]

Personally I would want the strix motherboard, but that would be purely because I would want it..... rather than being necessary. The tighter voltages will help with higher multi-core boosting.

yeah as Scott said, i would up the Mobo to Strix

Thanks both for your input, but is that mobo change out of preference or necessity? I don't want to get in to a spiralling rebuild cost and am really just looking at the upgrade on CPU (if possible) and whether my rig will still be functioning as I want it to, although having looked the CPU upgrade is now at £103 extra and the MOBO (I assume we are talking the Strix X-570) is only another £46 so if it is going to offer me significant improvement then would be worth looking at?

 

[loso64]

Thanks both for your input, but is that mobo change out of preference or necessity? I don't want to get in to a spiralling rebuild cost and am really just looking at the upgrade on CPU (if possible) and whether my rig will still be functioning as I want it to, although having looked the CPU upgrade is now at £103 extra and the MOBO (I assume we are talking the Strix X-570) is only another £46 so if it is going to offer me significant improvement then would be worth looking at?

i would argue necessity, with 5900x and two core clusters 12 cores total, you want a good power delivery

correction, it seems like the two boards have the same power delivery. So it just depends on the feature set you might want

 

[Scott]

Power capacity is the same with the boards, the quality of the power controller is different though.

It is not necessary at all, it would just offer a bit better performance. Nothing will deteriorate or be hampered by either motherboard..... it's purely down to slight gains from tighter control.

 

[rouchie]

Power capacity is the same with the boards, the quality of the power controller is different though.

It is not necessary at all, it would just offer a bit better performance. Nothing will deteriorate or be hampered by either motherboard..... it's purely down to slight gains from tighter control.

Thanks for that, appreciate the advice