15.6 Recoil - Keyboard Problems

[roadcone]

Basic Spec:
Chassis & Display
Recoil Series: 15.6" Matte QHD 165Hz sRGB 100% LED Widescreen (2560x1440)
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen™ 9 Eight Core Processor 5900HX (3.3GHz, 4.6GHz Turbo)
Memory (RAM)
64GB Corsair 2666MHz SODIMM DDR4 (2 x 32GB)
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® RTX 3070 - 8.0GB GDDR6 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1
1st M.2 SSD Drive
2TB INTEL® 670p M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 3500MB/sR | 2700MB/sW)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
4TB CORSAIR MP400 NVMe PCIe M.2 SSD (up to 3480 MB/R, 3000 MB/W)

This has arrived and before I got very far into loading my software I discovered two problems with the keyboard. I have reported it to PCSL but at present they do not have a resolution. So I thought I would share it here to see if anyone else has any ideas. There are two problems:

1. FN does not appear to be recognised by the system. Control Centre enables the function keys to be given either Function Key or Special Key priority. Either way, holding down the FN key should act as a 'shift' key to provide access to the 'other' set. It does not. Running two different keycode scanners provide a keycode each time it is pressed so the basic mechanical nature of the key is working. This means I can not access the 'other' functions, neither on the function keys nor the keypad.

2. F9 returns the same keycode as that issued by the number pad '+' and the main keyboard shifted '=+' keys (079). The other function keys F1 through F10 issue sequential numbers starting 059. I have confirmed this by using Autohotkey to remap F9 and doing so also remaps the other two keys - but that was inevitable given the keycodes are the same.

I have selected alternative languages (well, USA is very different to UK English) and both USA and UK standard and International keyboards but they all exhibit the same problem. PCSL say they have a laptop in their workshop exhibiting the same problem and that a BIOS update has not resolved the matter.

I am waiting for Customer Services to get back to me but I appear to be at a decision point. Do I keep it or send it back. I would want the function keys to get priority and can map most other keys to Shift or Alt or Ctl or Rt Alt plus Function (but not the keyboard backlights which seem only available via Control Centre) but the F9 issue is the killer.

Dunno what to do now ...

 

[Bhuna50]

Can you post your full spec please.

Did you order with Windows?

Have you let the laptop install all Windows updates?

Is the control centre / gaming centre installed?

 

[roadcone]

I did order Windows Home with the laptop.

I ran Windows setup then went to updates and kept clicking 'check' until it told me I was up to date. I then installed Vivaldi Browser and Bitdefender anti-virus. It was at that point that I discovered the problem. After that I changed language and keyboard to see if that made a difference. Then ran a portable copy of a keycode scanner to check keycodes. Then used Autohotkey to remap F9. PCSL tried a BIOS update on the machine in their workshop - they were intending to send it to me but that plan was scrapped when their own laptop failed to be resolved.

Yes, Control Center was fully installed. In addition, PCSL sent me updated copies of both the drivers and Control Center and I installed both. I have no idea if the drivers were updated but Control Center did install but was the same version (I removed the previous version first, checked to see if that enabled the FN or F9 keys but it did not, then I installed the new copy of Control Center). At several points in the process I went into Device Manager and checked for any '!' but there were none. I clicked the update drivers but was always told that mine were up to date. Within Control Center I have tried with FN lock both on and off but again, no joy.

Oh, and I uninstalled Vivaldi then tried then uninstalled Bitdefender then tried. I think that brings us up to date.

Full Spec:

Chassis & Display
Recoil Series: 15.6" Matte QHD 165Hz sRGB 100% LED Widescreen (2560x1440)
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen™ 9 Eight Core Processor 5900HX (3.3GHz, 4.6GHz Turbo)
Memory (RAM)
64GB Corsair 2666MHz SODIMM DDR4 (2 x 32GB)
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® RTX 3070 - 8.0GB GDDR6 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1
1st M.2 SSD Drive
2TB INTEL® 670p M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 3500MB/sR | 2700MB/sW)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
4TB CORSAIR MP400 NVMe PCIe M.2 SSD (up to 3480 MB/R, 3000 MB/W)
External Hard Drive
4TB Seagate One Touch External HDD, USB 3.0, Black
Memory Card Reader
Integrated SD Memory Card Reader
AC Adaptor
1 x 230W AC Adaptor
Power Cable
2 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Battery
Recoil Series Integrated 94WH Lithium Ion Battery
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card
2 Channel High Definition Audio + MIC/Headphone Jack
Wireless Network Card
GIGABIT LAN & WIRELESS INTEL® Wi-Fi 6 AX200 (2.4 Gbps) + BT 5.0
USB/Thunderbolt Options
1 x USB 3.2 PORT (Type C) + 3 x USB 3.2 PORTS
Keyboard Language
PER-KEY RGB BACKLIT UK MECHANICAL KEYBOARD
Operating System
Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Supplied on USB Drive
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
BullGuard™ Internet Security - Free 90 Day License inc. Gamer Mode
Browser
Microsoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)
Keyboard & Mouse
INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
Webcam
INTEGRATED 1MP HD WEBCAM
Warranty
3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 7 to 9 working days
Promotional Item
Get 6 Months Founders Membership to GeForce Now w/ select RTX 30 Series Laptops
Welcome Book
PCSpecialist Welcome Book - United Kingdom & Republic of Ireland

Oh ... and thank you for responding.

 

[Bhuna50]

Ah so have PCS replicated the issue on their own laptop as well?

 

[roadcone]

Yes. They initially said they had not experienced this issue before then stated that they had one in the workshop with the same problems. They obtained and installed a BIOS upgrade but that did not apparently resolve the issue. At the moment, technical has passed it over the customer services so I don't know now what their next technical strategy is. They have suggested returning it for 'repair' but I'm not happy with that on two counts; I am not happy that a 'new out of the box' computer should be repaired and anyway, they have not yet said what it is they are going to repair. Replace components one-by-one until the problem goes away perhaps - but they could do that with their own laptop.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Yes. They initially said they had not experienced this issue before then stated that they had one in the workshop with the same problems. They obtained and installed a BIOS upgrade but that did not apparently resolve the issue. At the moment, technical has passed it over the customer services so I don't know now what their next technical strategy is. They have suggested returning it for 'repair' but I'm not happy with that on two counts; I am not happy that a 'new out of the box' computer should be repaired and anyway, they have not yet said what it is they are going to repair. Replace components one-by-one until the problem goes away perhaps - but they could do that with their own laptop.

I don't think this points to an issue with the laptop at all, more with control center not correctly mapping the keys, unless it's a physically badly wired keyboard, but that would be extremely unusual. We did have another user with the same issue and advised him to contact PCS to see if there was an update to control center. Let me see if I can find that thread.

 

[roadcone]

Funny you should say that - I did wonder and also had the thought that installing a much older version of Control Center might help with the fault-finding. It may not enable all the correct, current functions but if it were to make FN available and resolve F9 then that would be a strong indicator.

And no, I have never thought the problem was hardware (they keys are issuing keycodes when pressed) and thought it is probably somewhere in the BIOS, Keyboard Driver (probably not having tried several) or some other software and Control Center is a good candidate.

[Edit] Prior to installing the 'latest' Control Center from the PCSL link I uninstalled the one installed when the laptop arrived. I checked out F9 in Notepad and it still produced the '+' symbol and the FN+Fn keys did not make the changes to keyboard lights, brightness, media control etc.

And if it is Control Center, why does everyone with this model / configuration not have the problem?

 

[SpyderTracks]

And if it is Control Center, why does everyone with this model / configuration not have the problem?

That's a very good point that I can't answer. As you say, perhaps it's some odd combination of BIOS / ECC.

It's very odd indeed, I can't find that other thread unfortunately, no idea who posted it, it was a few months ago.

It's not going to be something I'd imagine they need your laptop physically there to test though if they're able to replicate it on a system they have in stock, I don't want to tread on their toes, but it does seem something that an update would address.

 

[roadcone]

In their position I'd probably take the laptop back as it disguises the fact that they are doing nothing and / or have no ideas. At the moment, I have reset Windows and put the laptop back in the box. Seems to me that it will inevitably go back. I've been told to expect contact within three days (we'll see) but if not, I'll be asking to cancel the order (had it less than two weeks) and will consider transferring the funding to another - maybe the AMD Ionico with the same spec.

 

[SpyderTracks]

In their position I'd probably take the laptop back as it disguises the fact that they are doing nothing and / or have no ideas.

I don't think for one second they're doing nothing about it, if they're able to replicate it, that's the hardest part of any solution. The next step would be liaising with the manufacturer to find a correction.

Is very strange, can't for the life of me think what could be attributing to that that would make it hard to correct.

In my biased opinion, personally I hold Clevo in higher regard to TongFang for reliability and build quality. Specs on stuff like the screens are often lower resolution, but overall you get a much more substantial build. That's purely going off the reports we get here on the forum, generally the TongFangs seem to be more plagued with odd issues compared to the clevos.

I say biased because I'm the proud owner of a 2014 Clevo which I still use every day, and even still game on with some of the recent remaster releases. It's never had an issue, just the usual maintenance.

I'm sincerely thinking of applying for a marriage license with the laptop, not sure if we've reached that stage of progressive partnership

 

[roadcone]

Spidertracks: I have a 14" Lafite and am very happy with that as a smaller laptop. Do I understand correctly that the Ionico is also Clevo? I have since discovered that Recoil is Tongfang and I have also discovered the inconsistencies of typing on their keyboard. In this current problem I have also found that the Clevo site enables all manner of downloads whereas there appears to be no Tongfang site.

I hope you and your laptop are both very happy together but you may wish to wait a little longer before 'tying the knot' - as restrictions ease you may soon be able to invite distant cousins such as Apple or Linux to your celebrations.

 

[Vergaro98]

Ionico is also a Tongfang.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Spidertracks: I have a 14" Lafite and am very happy with that as a smaller laptop. Do I understand correctly that the Ionico is also Clevo? I have since discovered that Recoil is Tongfang and I have also discovered the inconsistencies of typing on their keyboard. In this current problem I have also found that the Clevo site enables all manner of downloads whereas there appears to be no Tongfang site.

I hope you and your laptop are both very happy together but you may wish to wait a little longer before 'tying the knot' - as restrictions ease you may soon be able to invite distant cousins such as Apple or Linux to your celebrations.

The Ionico 15" is a TongFang

 

[roadcone]

The Ionico 15" is a TongFang

Mmmm. Is there a Clevo option that gets me the same spec, especially screen resolution and colour as it will be used for photo processing.

 

[Vergaro98]

Mmmm. Is there a Clevo option that gets me the same spec, especially screen resolution and colour as it will be used for photo processing.

Unfortunately Clevo chassis's aren't powerfull and superspecs like Tongfang, but they'd be more stable and well designed. That's what I think but I can be wrong 🙌🏻.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Unfortunately Clevo chassis's aren't powerfull and superspecs like Tongfang, but they'd be more stable and well designed. That's what I think but I can be wrong 🙌🏻.

They’re just as powerful with regards to internals, it’s just the screen resolution that’s less.

But for photo editing you’d surely be using an external screen anyway as laptop would be far too small.

 

[roadcone]

But for photo editing you’d surely be using an external screen anyway as laptop would be far too small.

Yes and no. I have a PCSL desktop with decent monitor but that is not always available (dual-use desk and continuing home working) so there are many occasions when, at present, the 14" Lafite is used and that brings significant screen compromises. I frequently over-sharpen at 14" and it looks horrid at even 15.6 let alone 24!!

Thank you for you help and advice / opinions.

 

[Vergaro98]

I don't think they're as powerfull. For 15" Clevo there are cosmos IX, Elimina, Defiance. For 17" Clevo there are the same plus the Recoil (that's the only Clevo with ultraspecs but it's a DTR and not properly a laptop 😅). None of the clevo have a full power 3070 or 3080 and the only one that has 3070 or 3080 (max-q, not full power) is the defiance but it has 10th series Intel.

 

[roadcone]

Keyboard started playing up again - the cursor keys. They are doing all sorts of odd things in all manner of applications.

Pressing a cursor key, or sometimes holding it down, can cause the active window to snap to the left or right of the screen, minimise to the taskbar then maximise again; or in a spreadsheet it can cause the impression that scroll lock has been activated (the whole spreadsheet moves around rather than the cursor moving from cell to cell) even though scroll lock is off; in a spreadsheet moving from cell to cell causes each cell to be highlighted (just as would be the case if you held Ctrl and clicked on cells up/down/left/right to create a pattern), or it causes the Windows Search box to appear. And more and more and more odd things. It does not lock anything else up and I can still run other programmes with no issues. Sometimes holding Shift sorts it or pressing Ctrl+Shift+P or by loading another application and closing it. Sometimes none of those work and I have to restart the computer.

Oh, and the numeric pad cursor keys do the same thing.

I have done all the regular things: removed keyboard in Device Manager, run SFC to check the installation, checked the CAB files, forced W10 to check against the CAB files, disabled the in-built Fn Key app, progressively disabled software that runs at startup, tried most of the futile actions suggested by numerous websites as guaranteed fixes. W10, drivers and PCS Control Centre are all up to date.

Couple this with the fact that for several months I have been unable to use Windows Menu search - I have been used to pressing Win Key then typing, say, note to get notepad (don't use it often and don't want to clutter up the desktop). Not any more. I've followed the advice given by website ... another futile activity (Prepare to to assimilated - resistance is futile).

Ready to throw it away and go back to my 9-year-old, never-given-any-problem Asus.

Clive

 

[SpyderTracks]

Keyboard started playing up again - the cursor keys. They are doing all sorts of odd things in all manner of applications.

Pressing a cursor key, or sometimes holding it down, can cause the active window to snap to the left or right of the screen, minimise to the taskbar then maximise again; or in a spreadsheet it can cause the impression that scroll lock has been activated (the whole spreadsheet moves around rather than the cursor moving from cell to cell) even though scroll lock is off; in a spreadsheet moving from cell to cell causes each cell to be highlighted (just as would be the case if you held Ctrl and clicked on cells up/down/left/right to create a pattern), or it causes the Windows Search box to appear. And more and more and more odd things. It does not lock anything else up and I can still run other programmes with no issues. Sometimes holding Shift sorts it or pressing Ctrl+Shift+P or by loading another application and closing it. Sometimes none of those work and I have to restart the computer.

Oh, and the numeric pad cursor keys do the same thing.

I have done all the regular things: removed keyboard in Device Manager, run SFC to check the installation, checked the CAB files, forced W10 to check against the CAB files, disabled the in-built Fn Key app, progressively disabled software that runs at startup, tried most of the futile actions suggested by numerous websites as guaranteed fixes. W10, drivers and PCS Control Centre are all up to date.

Couple this with the fact that for several months I have been unable to use Windows Menu search - I have been used to pressing Win Key then typing, say, note to get notepad (don't use it often and don't want to clutter up the desktop). Not any more. I've followed the advice given by website ... another futile activity (Prepare to to assimilated - resistance is futile).

Ready to throw it away and go back to my 9-year-old, never-given-any-problem Asus.

Clive

Did you RMA it then and this is occuring after the RMA?

Not sure what you've done since your last posts as there was no update?