14" Lafite Pro 2 - Underperforming in Games?

[VJftw]

Hi, I recently bought a 14" Lafite Pro 2 (CLEVO NV41MB) with the following spec:

Chassis & Display	Lafité Pro Series: 14" Matte Full HD 120 Hz 72% NTSC LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Processor (CPU)	Intel® Core™ i7 Quad Core Processor i7-1165G7 (2.8GHz, 4.7GHz Turbo)
Memory (RAM)	16GB Corsair 2400MHz SODIMM DDR4 (2 x 8GB)
Graphics Card	NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1650 Ti - 4.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1
1st M.2 SSD Drive	500GB SAMSUNG 970 EVO PLUS M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3500MB/R, 3200MB/W)
Memory Card Reader	Integrated 6 in 1 Card Reader (SD /Mini SD/ SDHC / SDXC / MMC / RSMMC)
AC Adaptor	1 x 90W AC Adaptor
Power Cable	1 x 1 Metre Cloverleaf UK Power Cable
Battery	Lafité Pro Series Integrated 49WH Lithium Ion Battery
Sound Card	2 Channel High Definition Audio + MIC/Headphone Jack
Bluetooth & Wireless	GIGABIT LAN & WIRELESS INTEL® Wi-Fi 6 AX200 (2.4 Gbps) + BT 5.0
USB/Thunderbolt Options	1 x THUNDERBOLT 4 + 1 x USB 3.2 (TYPE C) + 2 x USB 3.2
Keyboard Language	LAFITÉ PRO SERIES SINGLE COLOUR BACKLIT UK KEYBOARD
Operating System	NO OPERATING SYSTEM REQUIRED
Operating System Language	United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media	NO RECOVERY MEDIA REQUIRED
Office Software	FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus	NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser	Microsoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)
Notebook Mouse	INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
Webcam	INTEGRATED 1MP HD WEBCAM
Warranty	3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery	STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time	Standard Build - Approximately 8 to 10 working days
Welcome Book	PCSpecialist Welcome Book - United Kingdom & Republic of Ireland

I've installed Windows 10 Pro, and all the drivers (minus VGA, downloaded latest drivers from nvidia) from the provided DVD. Given the 120Hz screen, i7 1165G, and GTX 1650Ti, I'd assumed I'd be able to at least comfortably play AAA games at 1080p on the lowest settings with an okay FPS, however, I'm struggling to play them even at 720p on the lowest settings. The games I've been trying are:
- Call of Duty: Warzone and Modern Warfare multiplayer
- Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War
- Batman: Arkham Knight

I get around an average of ~30fps in all of these at 720p lowest settings, and ~15fps at 1080p lowest settings, but they often close straight to the desktop. I have the power mode on "Entertainment" per Clevo's control utility and have a Laptop cooling stand on with the fans on full power.

A friend of mine has a 2017 Dell XPS 15 (i7-7700HQ, GTX 1050, 1080p) and is able to play CoD with us at 1080p on the lowest settings happily, so I'm expecting this laptop to at least do that.

---

I've run GPU-Z and CPUID's HWMonitor whilst playing a game of CoD Warzone (1080p lowest settings) where it closed to the desktop in ~3minutes playing and attached screenshots + logs if that helps at all.

Here are links to UserBenchmark runs: Discrete GPU, Integrated GPU

I've checked the EventLog, and there are only errors related to networking (ndis, wifi). One thing I didn't expect was my CPU to hit 90C and in CoD Warzone, my CPU time is quite high (50ms-100ms) - so it's almost as if my CPU is a bottleneck as my GPU load (from GPU-Z) seems to average at ~30-40%.

I'm going to download CS:GO and give that a try as well. see Update 1.

Is this expected performance from this laptop? If not, any ideas why I'm underperforming?

---
Update 1: Tried with CS:GO and Civilization 6

Civilization 6 performed as expected under Direct X 12 - was able to play it on 1080p max settings with a reasonable FPS.

CS:GO is very playable at 1080p on the lowest settings (60-100fps on average), but a part of me did expect a bit more and my CPU was still reaching ~90C.

I've also ventured into the Intel Graphics Command Center settings and disabled "Adaptive Sync" now, my reasoning behind this is that it's reported that the display is plugged into the Intel GPU so i'm assuming the dGPU is rendering the picture and the iGPU is still being used to display it. Based on this theory, I'll try an external display too as that will be plugged into the dGPU so won't be going through my CPU/iGPU at all. see Update 2.

---
Update 2: Tried with an external display, however that didn't go very far as they're plugged into the iGPU.

I think my concerns are valid:

shows CoD Warzone running consistently at 97fps with a i7 10750H + GTX 1650ti on 1080p with high textures and everything else low/disabled. I've additionally tried:

• using Snappy Driver Installer to update various drivers (there were a few including a new iGPU driver)
• using throttlestop to stop my CPU from overheating - this works, but still have very low FPS (~18fps on 1080p all low/disabled)

---
Update 3: I installed MSI Afterburner to get an OSD of my GPU usage/cpu usage whilst trying to play games. Here's a table of each game and their values:

Game	dGPU usage	iGPU usage	CPU usage
CoD Multiplayer (DX12, 1080p, low)	~20-40%	~5%	100%
CS:GO (DX9, 1080p, low)	~40%	0%	~60%
Civilization VI (DX12, 1080p, ultra)	~97%	10%	~60%
Batman: Arkham Knight (DX11, 1080p, low)	~20-40%	~4%	95%

As you can see above, Civilization VI seems to be the only game that makes my GPU kick in fully, and I manage to get 60fps+ in. I've tried turning the settings up in the other games, but the dGPU/CPU usage doesn't change.

 

[DarkPaladin]

Try doing this:

• Open NVIDIA Control Panel
• Configure Surround, PhysX > Processor > Click your GPU
• Manage 3D Settings
• Program Settings
• Click "Add" then "Browse"
• Search for the game's main application/executable file (e.g. SteamLibrary > Commons > Game Title > (GameTitle) Application/Executable)
• Once you've done that, scroll down to "Power Management Mode" and select "Prefer Maximum Performance" for each game you want to play

As far as I'm aware, NVIDIA Control Panel has them automatically set to "Optimal Power", which can sometimes cause poorer performance in games.

As for the high temps, I'd personally apply either CoolerMaster High Performance or Grizzly Kyronaut thermal paste and make sure the heatsinks are mounted correctly. I had an issue recently where pretty much every game would cause my CPU to skyrocket to 100 degrees until a re-paste + careful heatsink installation fixed it for me.

 

[FerrariVie]

Try doing this:

• Open NVIDIA Control Panel
• Configure Surround, PhysX > Processor > Click your GPU
• Manage 3D Settings
• Program Settings
• Click "Add" then "Browse"
• Search for the game's main application/executable file (e.g. SteamLibrary > Commons > Game Title > (GameTitle) Application/Executable)
• Once you've done that, scroll down to "Power Management Mode" and select "Prefer Maximum Performance" for each game you want to play

As far as I'm aware, NVIDIA Control Panel has them automatically set to "Optimal Power", which can sometimes cause poorer performance in games.

As for the high temps, I'd personally apply either CoolerMaster High Performance or Grizzly Kyronaut thermal paste and make sure the heatsinks are mounted correctly. I had an issue recently where pretty much every game would cause my CPU to skyrocket to 100 degrees until a re-paste + careful heatsink installation fixed it for me.

AFAIK, that doesn't work anymore on newer Windows builds. The responsibility has been transferred to windows, so he needs to add those games to windows "graphical settings" screen instead. It could be that the iGPU is being used instead, but I'm not sure since he's reporting about 40% usage on the dGPU, which indicates that it's being used.

@VJftw , it caught my attention that Civ is the only game you're running on ultra and also getting good FPS. If you run other games on high graphics settings, does it get better, worse or it doesn't change anything?

I also didn't understand what you said about the external monitor (update 2). It should be the opposite, actually. External monitors are almost always be connected directly to the dGPU (not iGPU, as you said). Where did you get that info from?

Another thing is: you are comparing your build with your friends, but his laptop has a 7700HQ (high-performance 45W), while your CPU is definitely a low-power and high-battery-life type of CPU. So I'm assuming that his might perform better on games, especially when you're using graphical settings on low and transferring most of the game's processing needs to the CPU. Same thing about the video you posted, the 10750H is also a high-power 45W CPU.

 

[VJftw]

Try doing this:

• Open NVIDIA Control Panel
• Configure Surround, PhysX > Processor > Click your GPU
• Manage 3D Settings
• Program Settings
• Click "Add" then "Browse"
• Search for the game's main application/executable file (e.g. SteamLibrary > Commons > Game Title > (GameTitle) Application/Executable)
• Once you've done that, scroll down to "Power Management Mode" and select "Prefer Maximum Performance" for each game you want to play

As far as I'm aware, NVIDIA Control Panel has them automatically set to "Optimal Power", which can sometimes cause poorer performance in games.

As for the high temps, I'd personally apply either CoolerMaster High Performance or Grizzly Kyronaut thermal paste and make sure the heatsinks are mounted correctly. I had an issue recently where pretty much every game would cause my CPU to skyrocket to 100 degrees until a re-paste + careful heatsink installation fixed it for me.

Thanks! Just tried out the Prefer Maximum Performance and it, unfortunately, seems to have made no difference Have ordered some Grizzly Kryonaut and will re-tim the CPU. Out of interest, would this void my warranty? I only purchased this about a month ago, but have only started trying to game on it this holiday season.

AFAIK, that doesn't work anymore on newer Windows builds. The responsibility has been transferred to windows, so he needs to add those games to windows "graphical settings" screen instead. It could be that the iGPU is being used instead, but I'm not sure since he's reporting about 40% usage on the dGPU, which indicates that it's being used.

@VJftw , it caught my attention that Civ is the only game you're running on ultra and also getting good FPS. If you run other games on high graphics settings, does it get better, worse or it doesn't change anything?

I also didn't understand what you said about the external monitor (update 2). It should be the opposite, actually. External monitors are almost always be connected directly to the dGPU (not iGPU, as you said). Where did you get that info from?

Another thing is: you are comparing your build with your friends, but his laptop has a 7700HQ (high-performance 45W), while your CPU is definitely a low-power and high-battery-life type of CPU. So I'm assuming that his might perform better on games, especially when you're using graphical settings on low and transferring most of the game's processing needs to the CPU. Same thing about the video you posted, the 10750H is also a high-power 45W CPU.

I have set the Windows graphics settings for them (see attached screenshot) and even tried setting the NVIDIA Control Panel -> Manage 3D settings -> Preferred graphics processor to "High-performance NVIDIA processor" which didn't seem to make any difference in terms of FPS/GPU load either.

RE: Civ 6, yup that also caught my attention - I tried lower settings and actually had lower FPS on Civ. So I tried bumping my settings up in the other games too, but those higher settings reduced my FPS slightly (what I would normally expect to happen).

RE: the external monitor; Yup, surprised me too! Looking at the NVIDIA Control Panel -> Set PhysX Configuration, it appears to be wired into the iGPU (see attached screenshot). It also states this under Windows Settings -> Advanced Display Settings (see attached screenshot).

RE: 7700HQ, 10750H vs my 1165G7, thanks for pointing that out! digging a bit deeper - it does appear that my 1165G7 just about outperforms the 7700HQ but the 10750H is much better. Based on those benchmarks, I should expect it to perform at least similarly to my friend's 7700HQ + GTX 1050, right? The GTX 1650ti is much better than their GTX 1050.

 

[DarkPaladin]

Ah, sorry to hear that. Usually for me, lower FPS than usual either means a driver issue (typically solved by using DDU to remove the driver in safe mode followed by installing drivers until you find one that works best for you) or an NVIDIA control panel setting.

As far as I'm aware, I don't think applying thermal paste voids your warranty. Best wait until someone with more experience than myself responds to that question

 

[FerrariVie]

RE: Civ 6, yup that also caught my attention - I tried lower settings and actually had lower FPS on Civ. So I tried bumping my settings up in the other games too, but those higher settings reduced my FPS slightly (what I would normally expect to happen).

I really think that it makes sense, because if you've changed to low settings, then you're relying more on the CPU that's definitely not enough to run the whole game without much help from the GPU. Low settings work well for GPU bottlenecks, but my opinion is that your system looks more like a CPU bottleneck.

I've also seen your GPU-z logs and they're showing that the GPU is being used as expected, but are you sure that it is the log from the 1650Ti and not the iGPU?

RE: 7700HQ, 10750H vs my 1165G7, thanks for pointing that out! digging a bit deeper - it does appear that my 1165G7 just about outperforms the 7700HQ but the 10750H is much better. Based on those benchmarks, I should expect it to perform at least similarly to my friend's 7700HQ + GTX 1050, right? The GTX 1650ti is much better than their GTX 1050.

To be honest, userbenchmark is rubbish. I don't trust that at all, as well as cpumonkey and similar websites, as they're either an algorithm that tries to guess scores without testing for real, or they're very biased for a particular brand that pays them more to raise scores. You need to find reviews that really have used and tested that same CPU and GPU that you have, in order to have an idea of how your system should be performing and comparing what's better or worse.

Some examples:

Final nail in the coffin: Bar-raising AMD Ryzen 9 5950X somehow lags behind four Intel parts including the Core i9-10900K in average bench on UserBenchmark despite higher 1-core and 4-core scores

The AMD Ryzen 9 5950X has been impressing many with its various appearances on synthetic benchmarks. However, it is the Intel Core i9-10900K that tops the average bench charts over at UserBenchmark, while the powerful Zen 3 Vermeer CPU has to languish behind in fifth position, regardless of...

www.notebookcheck.net

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/g2x49q

 

[VJftw]

I really think that it makes sense, because if you've changed to low settings, then you're relying more on the CPU that's definitely not enough to run the whole game without much help from the GPU. Low settings work well for GPU bottlenecks, but my opinion is that your system looks more like a CPU bottleneck.

I've also seen your GPU-z logs and they're showing that the GPU is being used as expected, but are you sure that it is the log from the 1650Ti and not the iGPU?


To be honest, userbenchmark is rubbish. I don't trust that at all, as well as cpumonkey and similar websites, as they're either an algorithm that tries to guess scores without testing for real, or they're very biased for a particular brand that pays them more to raise scores. You need to find reviews that really have used and tested that same CPU and GPU that you have, in order to have an idea of how your system should be performing and comparing what's better or worse.

Some examples:

Final nail in the coffin: Bar-raising AMD Ryzen 9 5950X somehow lags behind four Intel parts including the Core i9-10900K in average bench on UserBenchmark despite higher 1-core and 4-core scores

The AMD Ryzen 9 5950X has been impressing many with its various appearances on synthetic benchmarks. However, it is the Intel Core i9-10900K that tops the average bench charts over at UserBenchmark, while the powerful Zen 3 Vermeer CPU has to languish behind in fifth position, regardless of...

www.notebookcheck.net

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/g2x49q

Thanks, I'm really hoping for it not be a CPU bottleneck as it does put a bit of a damper on this system.

Yup, I'm confident that the GPU-Z logs are from 1650Ti as it includes columns such as "PerfCap Reason" which is an NVIDIA thing and I don't see it when I log to file with the iGPU. I've also tried forcing CoD MW to run on the iGPU today and that gave me ~20-30fps on 720p in menus, but I couldn't actually get into a game.

Thanks for the explanation about userbenchmark, will stay clear in the future! Alternatively, are notebookcheck more reputable? There's not a huge amount of difference in their benchmarks of the 7700HQ vs 1165G7.

I also found this review of a Razer Blade Stealth from notebookcheck too which seems to be almost identically specced as my laptop (it has 1165G7, 1650Ti Max-Q) - except the Max-Q has lower clocks. This review claims that the Razer Blade Stealth managed ~161 FPS with 1920x1080 Normal/Off AF:4x on GTA V. I've just tried this now with the GTA V graphics benchmark but got ~30-70fps with the CPU usage ~60-80% and GPU usage ~40% which is a lot less than the similarly specced Razer Blade Stealth.

Thanks for all your help so far!

 

[SpyderTracks]

Thanks, I'm really hoping for it not be a CPU bottleneck as it does put a bit of a damper on this system.

Yup, I'm confident that the GPU-Z logs are from 1650Ti as it includes columns such as "PerfCap Reason" which is an NVIDIA thing and I don't see it when I log to file with the iGPU. I've also tried forcing CoD MW to run on the iGPU today and that gave me ~20-30fps on 720p in menus, but I couldn't actually get into a game.

Thanks for the explanation about userbenchmark, will stay clear in the future! Alternatively, are notebookcheck more reputable? There's not a huge amount of difference in their benchmarks of the 7700HQ vs 1165G7.

I also found this review of a Razer Blade Stealth from notebookcheck too which seems to be almost identically specced as my laptop (it has 1165G7, 1650Ti Max-Q) - except the Max-Q has lower clocks. This review claims that the Razer Blade Stealth managed ~161 FPS with 1920x1080 Normal/Off AF:4x on GTA V. I've just tried this now with the GTA V graphics benchmark but got ~30-70fps with the CPU usage ~60-80% and GPU usage ~40% which is a lot less than the similarly specced Razer Blade Stealth.

Thanks for all your help so far!

I wouldn't repaste just yet, it sounds like windows isn't configured.

The drivers on the disc shouldn't be used, they'll be out of date.

I would suggest a clean reinstall of windows from scratch, then allow windows update to install all drivers possible, if there are any left you need to get them from www.clevo.com.tw except nvidia which you correctly get from nvidia as you said. Make sure also you've installed control center last as the system isn't configured without that.

 

[VJftw]

I wouldn't repaste just yet, it sounds like windows isn't configured.

The drivers on the disc shouldn't be used, they'll be out of date.

I would suggest a clean reinstall of windows from scratch, then allow windows update to install all drivers possible, if there are any left you need to get them from www.clevo.com.tw except nvidia which you correctly get from nvidia as you said. Make sure also you've installed control center last as the system isn't configured without that.

Thanks!

I've done exactly what you've said (I think):
1. Download the latest Windows 10 via the Download tool and placed the installer on a USB SSD.
2. Installed Windows 10 again.
3. Run Windows Update and keep restarting and running Windows Update until no updates + optional updates minus iGPU/dGPU.
4. Download and install latest dGPU driver (460.79) - skipped GeForce experience, restart.
5. Install Battle.net and attempt to run CoD, it stuttered a lot (as I'm missing the iGPU driver too which the display is connected to).
6. Download and install the latest iGPU driver (27.20.100.8935), restart.
7. Run CoD again, I'm getting better FPS with 1080p (~30-40fps) but this still isn't great.
8. Check Device Manager for any missing drivers (none were missing)
9. Download and Install Clevo Control Center (3.07) (www.clevo.com.tw for model NV4xMB_ME)
I've now attached an external monitor to my laptop and whipped open a bunch of monitoring tools: CPU-Z, GPU-Z, HWMonitor, Task Manager, and Resource Monitor.

It seems that the CPU is causing a bottleneck, but only because it seems to get clocked down to 400Mhz and stays < 1.2Ghz in-game. I think this is what's likely causing the high CPU-time and the apparent high CPU usage. Oddly enough, in the menus and loading screen, the CPU frequency is normal (2.8Ghz-4Ghz) and I get >120fps. It drops down to a low frequency in the lobby and game, which is where I get low FPS.
Screenshots of this (sorry they're too big for forums):

• downclocked in game:

  https://imgur.com/68XNOWI

• downclocked in lobby:

  https://imgur.com/EenJV4M

• normal in menu:

  https://imgur.com/bgE20tK

I'm going to try and use throttlestop to stop this (initial attempts don't seem to stop CoD from downclocking), will report back!

 

[VJftw]

Can see in this picture

https://imgur.com/zXysEmE

that my CPU is getting POWER limited (according to throttlestop). I've disabled turbo and speedshift/step to try and lock this at 2.8Ghz (which should give me a big improvement in FPS 🤞). I can see this mentioned in https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/foru...fix-vyper-17-battery-performance-issue.73832/ but I'm not running on battery power + I'm not 100% sure to set as the Turbo Boost Power Limits (I've actually set Disable Turbo so I'm assuming this will have no effect)

Another thing to note is my dGPU seems to go to boost to a core clock of 1965Mhz which is way beyond the boost clock of 1485Mhz (according to https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gtx-1650-ti-mobile.c3512) but the board power draw is within the 50W TDP (or does Board Power Draw + GPU Chip Power Draw contribute to the TDP limits, in which case I'm hitting 55.5W (35.5+20.0).

You can see in this picture

https://imgur.com/N0ja7Rf

that my CPU is not POWER limited in the menu and the GPU is drawing <50W (31.9+17.2=49.1W)

I'll try to find a way to reduce the boost clock to the advertised 1485Mhz, hopefully, that will lower the GPU's power draw and my CPU will stop getting POWER limited. Any ideas off the top of your heads on how to do this? or any other suggestions?

 

[FerrariVie]

Can see in this picture

https://imgur.com/zXysEmE

that my CPU is getting POWER limited (according to throttlestop). I've disabled turbo and speedshift/step to try and lock this at 2.8Ghz (which should give me a big improvement in FPS 🤞). I can see this mentioned in https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/foru...fix-vyper-17-battery-performance-issue.73832/ but I'm not running on battery power + I'm not 100% sure to set as the Turbo Boost Power Limits (I've actually set Disable Turbo so I'm assuming this will have no effect)

Those are very different CPUs, so not sure if you're going to be able to do the same thing on yours.

Another thing to note is my dGPU seems to go to boost to a core clock of 1965Mhz which is way beyond the boost clock of 1485Mhz (according to https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gtx-1650-ti-mobile.c3512) but the board power draw is within the 50W TDP (or does Board Power Draw + GPU Chip Power Draw contribute to the TDP limits, in which case I'm hitting 55.5W (35.5+20.0).

I'll try to find a way to reduce the boost clock to the advertised 1485Mhz, hopefully, that will lower the GPU's power draw and my CPU will stop getting POWER limited. Any ideas off the top of your heads on how to do this? or any other suggestions?.

That is expected behaviour and all laptop dGPUs are like that (mine included). On the GPU, by default you'll always going to be limited by the power draw and the clocks will go higher or lower depending on the temperature. It's kind of a dynamic overclock, so if it has thermal room, it will keep going up until there's no more power available (power limit on the GPU, you can check that with MSI Afterburner). You can try to limit the GPU until it doesn't power limit anymore (as I do on mine, again using Afterburner), but that clock is still above the default specs. However, I'm not sure if the power that's not going to be used by the GPU will be directed to the CPU instead, but you can give it a try.

 

[VJftw]

Those are very different CPUs, so not sure if you're going to be able to do the same thing on yours.

Thanks, yeah I definitely didn't want to copy/imitate that solution.

That is expected behaviour and all laptop dGPUs are like that (mine included). On the GPU, by default you'll always going to be limited by the power draw and the clocks will go higher or lower depending on the temperature. It's kind of a dynamic overclock, so if it has thermal room, it will keep going up until there's no more power available (power limit on the GPU, you can check that with MSI Afterburner). You can try to limit the GPU until it doesn't power limit anymore (as I do on mine, again using Afterburner), but that clock is still above the default specs. However, I'm not sure if the power that's not going to be used by the GPU will be directed to the CPU instead, but you can give it a try.

Unfortunately, I can only control the Core Clock and Memory Clock in MSI Afterburner. I've tried setting them both to the minimum (-502) which did reduce the clocks but not the power draw.

Did a bit more googling, and found these statements:
> The power consumption of the 1650 Ti for laptops is specified at 50 - 80 Watt TGP (Total Graphics Power) by Nvidia and therefore 5 - 25 Watt higher than the GTX 1650. (NotebookCheck.net - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650Ti Mobile)

> The power consumption of the 1650 for laptops is specified at 50 Watt TGP (Total Graphics Power) by Nvidia. (NotebookCheck.net - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 Mobile)

The Lafite 2 Pro comes with a 90W power supply and options for either the 1650 or the 1650Ti, so it seems like I've shot myself in the foot going for the Ti version. I assume the regular 1650 would operate within the 50W TGP thus the CPU wouldn't get POWER limited?

Could I potentially try/request a 120W power supply instead? would this make a difference?

 

[FerrariVie]

Thanks, yeah I definitely didn't want to copy/imitate that solution.

Unfortunately, I can only control the Core Clock and Memory Clock in MSI Afterburner. I've tried setting them both to the minimum (-502) which did reduce the clocks but not the power draw.

Not really, you indeed can do that. Look at this video, it's by adjusting the curves:

GPU Undervolting Guide for Laptops! - YouTube

The Lafite 2 Pro comes with a 90W power supply and options for either the 1650 or the 1650Ti, so it seems like I've shot myself in the foot going for the Ti version. I assume the regular 1650 would operate within the 50W TGP thus the CPU wouldn't get POWER limited?

Could I potentially try/request a 120W power supply instead? would this make a difference?

You need to know for sure before asking for a new PSU, if there is one available.

Now that you have MSI afterburner, it is very likely that you can add layers to the overlay to check CPU and GPU power draw (not sure how they're called) while gaming. You can also use Hwinfo for that too, but you won't be able to know if max CPU and max GPU power draws were active at the same time or not. So I think afterburner is the way, if you can get both power draws in there.

You could also try to use high-performance mode in control center for testing purposes, as it might not be configured correctly to your particular build and might not be providing enough power. High-performance is likely to allow more power to be delivered to your CPU, and even though in theory it only should be used for benchmarking on high-performance CPUs, for your low-powered CPU series it could help (keep an eye for thermals, though).

EDIT: Even though the GPU could be set up between 50 to 80W, it is totally up to the manufacturer to decide, depending on the thermal capacity of the chassis. So if you can only see your GPU using 50W, it is likely that Clevo specified it to draw 50W max, as higher than that would cause temperature and endurance issues. The Lafité is not really aimed at gaming, you know? Even though you could game on it, it's not designed for that.

 

[VJftw]

Not really, you indeed can do that. Look at this video, it's by adjusting the curves:

GPU Undervolting Guide for Laptops! - YouTube

Amazing! thank you, Ctrl + F. I'm not too comfortable or keen to spend much time figuring out stable undervolts - so I've opted for just locking the core clock to 1110Mhz by clicking on the graph, pressing ctrl + L, and then applying via afterburner. I get ~50fps in CoD Warzone with this now on 1080p which makes it a lot more playable, so thanks!

You need to know for sure before asking for a new PSU, if there is one available.

I don't see any mention of 120W PSU for this model anywhere, so I'm doubtful.

Now that you have MSI afterburner, it is very likely that you can add layers to the overlay to check CPU and GPU power draw (not sure how they're called) while gaming. You can also use Hwinfo for that too, but you won't be able to know if max CPU and max GPU power draws were active at the same time or not. So I think afterburner is the way, if you can get both power draws in there.

I don't have power draws in MSI afterburner, unfortunately. Did you see the screenshots earlier on imgur.com? They show the GPU power draw going beyond 50W, and I'm getting spikes of ~70W too. and the CPU power draw being throttled down to 7W (

https://imgur.com/zXysEmE

). A happy CPU power draw is anywhere between 16-25W (

https://imgur.com/N0ja7Rf

).

You could also try to use high-performance mode in control center for testing purposes, as it might not be configured correctly to your particular build and might not be providing enough power. High-performance is likely to allow more power to be delivered to your CPU, and even though in theory it only should be used for benchmarking on high-performance CPUs, for your low-powered CPU series it could help (keep an eye for thermals, though).

I experimented a bit with the different profiles: high-performance results in my GPU using even more watts and I think I get capped at my 90W PSU as the GPU goes up to 70+. I tried Power Saving, but that seemed to reduce the power limits for both my CPU and GPU.

EDIT: Even though the GPU could be set up between 50 to 80W, it is totally up to the manufacturer to decide, depending on the thermal capacity of the chassis. So if you can only see your GPU using 50W, it is likely that Clevo specified it to draw 50W max, as higher than that would cause temperature and endurance issues. The Lafité is not really aimed at gaming, you know? Even though you could game on it, it's not designed for that.

I'm seeing my GPU draw beyond 50W (

https://imgur.com/zXysEmE

) and have seen it go past 70W too. I understand that the Lafite wasn't designed for gaming, and I'm happy with the results/performance you've helped me get!

However, I do feel like I've got the short end of a stick here with this configuration. Given that the laptop offers both the 1650Ti(50-80W) + 1650(50W). As a naive buyer (and I am one), I would have expected the laptop to be able to use the full 1650Ti in games and perform better. However, I'm now working around the power limitations by underclocking my 1650Ti far below a 1650's speed (1100Mhz vs 1395Mhz) just to get games to work (I am still power limited, but less). I may as well have just gotten the GTX 1650 (which costs less!) and not have to do this workaround as the 1650 only draws 50W max (which would be fine as you can see 49.1W doesn't result in any POWER limit:

https://imgur.com/N0ja7Rf

).

I'll give PCS a call tomorrow and see if I have any options/if they can place a warning on the Lafite Pro product page - I'm sure I won't be the last person who runs into this!

 

[FerrariVie]

Amazing! thank you, Ctrl + F. I'm not too comfortable or keen to spend much time figuring out stable undervolts - so I've opted for just locking the core clock to 1110Mhz by clicking on the graph, pressing ctrl + L, and then applying via afterburner. I get ~50fps in CoD Warzone with this now on 1080p which makes it a lot more playable, so thanks!

Glad to know it helped! Now it is up to you to start tunning it and find the sweet spot. You don't necessarily need to flatten the curve on the first square, you can do it later. My stock curve look like the below, so I have different profiles for each occasion (depending on how much noise and performance I want at each moment), so I have curves like the red and green lines (as an example) below:


The further up that you start to flatten the curve, the lesser the underclock and undervolt is (stock is the grey line). The green, for example, will go to a max of 1575Mhz and 830mv, while the red 1795Mhz and 950mv. So you can play with those and create up to 5 different profiles to see what works better for you.

If this is indeed helping with your CPU performance, then (at least to me) it means that you are right and your PSU is not delivering enough power to your hardware components. However, it might be like this by design, as your fans and heat pipes might be too small to cool down more power, so they limit the power to keep temps (both from CPU, GPU and VRMs) under control. I would not recommend you to get a higher wattage PSU, unless it is provided to you by PCS and they confirm that it can be used on your machine. A PSU that is higher than what was specified can burn your internal wires and maybe fry your motherboard.

I don't have power draws in MSI afterburner, unfortunately. Did you see the screenshots earlier on imgur.com? They show the GPU power draw going beyond 50W, and I'm getting spikes of ~70W too. and the CPU power draw being throttled down to 7W (

https://imgur.com/zXysEmE

). A happy CPU power draw is anywhere between 16-25W (

https://imgur.com/N0ja7Rf

).

I experimented a bit with the different profiles: high-performance results in my GPU using even more watts and I think I get capped at my 90W PSU as the GPU goes up to 70+. I tried Power Saving, but that seemed to reduce the power limits for both my CPU and GPU.

I'm seeing my GPU draw beyond 50W (

https://imgur.com/zXysEmE

) and have seen it go past 70W too. I understand that the Lafite wasn't designed for gaming, and I'm happy with the results/performance you've helped me get!

I saw both this zXysEmE.png (3840×1080) (imgur.com) and this N0ja7Rf.png (3840×1080) (imgur.com) , but the max power is between 16-25W, which looks normal to me. So at some point it is reaching the specified wattage, but when does it drop to 7W? Is it exactly at the same time that the GPU kicks in?

And again, you can get even better performance once you find the curve on the GPU that works best for you!

 

[VJftw]

I called PCS today, their support team is raising this with their team lead and will email me back. I think they're going to investigate if a bigger PSU is okay etc.

They also mentioned and were curious to see how the CPU/GPU behaved on battery, so I've tried running CoD WarZone on battery and it seems to balance the power between the GPU and CPU much better (

https://imgur.com/5wP6Pfc

). I'm assuming that the GPU realizes it's not on AC so downclocks both the memory and core and uses less power accordingly. My CPU is still power limited, but much less so which lets it keep a more respectable clock speed (2Ghz).

Glad to know it helped! Now it is up to you to start tunning it and find the sweet spot. You don't necessarily need to flatten the curve on the first square, you can do it later. My stock curve look like the below, so I have different profiles for each occasion (depending on how much noise and performance I want at each moment), so I have curves like the red and green lines (as an example) below:
View attachment 20278

The further up that you start to flatten the curve, the lesser the underclock and undervolt is (stock is the grey line). The green, for example, will go to a max of 1575Mhz and 830mv, while the red 1795Mhz and 950mv. So you can play with those and create up to 5 different profiles to see what works better for you.

Oooh, amazing, I'll give this a go today! thanks!

I saw both this zXysEmE.png (3840×1080) (imgur.com) and this N0ja7Rf.png (3840×1080) (imgur.com) , but the max power is between 16-25W, which looks normal to me. So at some point it is reaching the specified wattage, but when does it drop to 7W? Is it exactly at the same time that the GPU kicks in?

Aye, it drops to 7W when the GPU is doing a bit more (in the lobby and in-game) and draws >50W, whereas in the menus when the GPU wasn't doing much thus using less power (<50W) the CPU had more Ws to play with.

 

[returnofthem]

I called PCS today, their support team is raising this with their team lead and will email me back. I think they're going to investigate if a bigger PSU is okay etc.

Did you get any further with this? I'm considering the same laptop I'm interested to know how you're getting on with it now.

 

[VJftw]

Did you get any further with this? I'm considering the same laptop I'm interested to know how you're getting on with it now.

Hi!

I'm not at a conclusion yet, but I'll give an update:

Emailed back and forth with PCS. It got escalated to the technical manager who tried to replicate my issues but wasn't able to - they managed to not have low FPS in games but I haven't seen their evidence. They're going to take my laptop back for inspection in the new year (hopefully our covid restrictions won't prevent me from traveling home where I'm less dependent on this laptop).

I've been using @FeVieira 's workaround (but simply just pressing Ctrl + F in MSI afterburner and locking the GPU clock at 1425Mhz with Ctrl + L when I want to play games) which I've gotten used to.

This is the only problem/nuisance with this laptop, I've been really happy with it otherwise (previously had a 2016 Dell XPS 9360 which would often get very hot). In power-saving, I get ~6 hours. Let me know if you have any other questions

 

[FerrariVie]

Hi!

I'm not at a conclusion yet, but I'll give an update:

Emailed back and forth with PCS. It got escalated to the technical manager who tried to replicate my issues but wasn't able to - they managed to not have low FPS in games but I haven't seen their evidence. They're going to take my laptop back for inspection in the new year (hopefully our covid restrictions won't prevent me from traveling home where I'm less dependent on this laptop).

I've been using @FeVieira 's workaround (but simply just pressing Ctrl + F in MSI afterburner and locking the GPU clock at 1425Mhz with Ctrl + L when I want to play games) which I've gotten used to.

This is the only problem/nuisance with this laptop, I've been really happy with it otherwise (previously had a 2016 Dell XPS 9360 which would often get very hot). In power-saving, I get ~6 hours. Let me know if you have any other questions

Just adding a suggestion: you can save your stock and "game" profiles in Afterburner, then just right-click on the icon to apply each profile when needed (as below - in my case 3 is stock, 4 is OC and 5 UC):

 

[returnofthem]

Thanks for the reply, that's very helpful! I've got one more question but it's not related to the topic in this thread, so I'll drop you a PM.