First major desktop purchase - everything look ok?

[BlessedSquirrel]

You know what, this is definitely what ill do. Thanks!
Can get 128gb DDR4 3600MHz for around £500.
(The same cost difference as the 128gb DDR4 3000MHz in my current build).

I suppose some questions,
It is entirely fine to buy 2 x (2x32gb) packs instead of 1 x (4x32) pack?
The latter seems to be more expensive.

I'm aware there used to be major requirements to have RAM paired.
But I assume buying 2 of the same pair will work just fine? Instead of a 4 pack?

Thanks

For clarity I am looking at the

Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 64GB (2 x 32GB) 3600MHz Kit - PVS464G360C8K​

or​

Patriot Viper 4 Blackout Series DDR4 64GB (2 x 32GB) 3600MHz Kit - ​

PBS464G360C8K​

Sorry if it's already been covered but what makes you think your ever going to need that much RAM, what program is it that requires it?

 

[sck451]

You know what, this is definitely what ill do. Thanks!
Can get 128gb DDR4 3600MHz for around £500.
(The same cost difference as the 128gb DDR4 3000MHz in my current build).

I suppose some questions,
It is entirely fine to buy 2 x (2x32gb) packs instead of 1 x (4x32) pack?
The latter seems to be more expensive.

I'm aware there used to be major requirements to have RAM paired.
But I assume buying 2 of the same pair will work just fine? Instead of a 4 pack?

Thanks

For clarity I am looking at the

Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 64GB (2 x 32GB) 3600MHz Kit - PVS464G360C8K​

or​

Patriot Viper 4 Blackout Series DDR4 64GB (2 x 32GB) 3600MHz Kit - ​

PBS464G360C8K​

Yeah, it should be completely fine to buy two pairs of the same thing. It's not inconceivable that there could be a problem, but it is highly unlikely.

 

[KevinKerrMusic]

Sorry if it's already been covered but what makes you think your ever going to need that much RAM, what program is it that requires it?

I work with digital audio, and majority of that means my instruments are all loaded into ram.

I have sessions with 100s of tracks in them, with some of those tracks using up to 1gb of ram each.

I have been working around it with my current 32gb set up, but time is money so they say.
And if I can invest in a better work flow with less workarounds the better.

Hope that makes sense

 

[BlessedSquirrel]

I work with digital audio, and majority of that means my instruments are all loaded into ram.

I have sessions with 100s of tracks in them, with some of those tracks using up to 1gb of ram each.

I have been working around it with my current 32gb set up, but time is money so they say.
And if I can invest in a better work flow with less workarounds the better.

Hope that makes sense

just be aware, RAM doesn't work in the way that a program can just use whatever is available. It's all down to what that program is written to be able to allocate.

Which DAW are you using and which plugins / instruments?

 

[KevinKerrMusic]

just be aware, RAM doesn't work in the way that a program can just use whatever is available. It's all down to what that program is written to be able to allocate.

Which DAW are you using and which plugins / instruments?

I go between Reaper 64bit, and Ableton Live 11 as a DAW. Using a large variety of plug ins, too many to possibly list at the moment sorry.
But primarily loaded through samplers such as Kontakt or Opus.

 

[BlessedSquirrel]

I go between Reaper 64bit, and Ableton Live 11 as a DAW. Using a large variety of plug ins, too many to possibly list at the moment sorry.
But primarily loaded through samplers such as Kontakt or Opus.

I would definitely suggest starting with 64gb, 128 is rediculously huge even for a 128 track project.

The thing is if your setup doesn't require that extra RAM, having it is no benefit whatsoever, it will just sit there completely unused, won't speed anything up whatsoever. RAM doesn't improve performance at all, adequate RAM merely avoids having to write to the pagefile.

On an audio system, you would set a specific SATA or NVME drove as a dedicated cache for those moments where a little extra ram is required and that prevents any slowdown far cheaper than having crazy amounts of ram for little purpose

So long as you have a suitably configured drive setup - OS, libraries, cache and storage, that's where performance is going to be far better optimised. This is from Ableton, but applies to any DAW

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209069989-Using-multiple-hard-drives

I'm not saying your requirements aren't going to be there for 128Gb, it's just it's a huge waste of money if the system isn't going to use it and as your already doubling your current setup, you may find that's enough. My point is guage by experience rather than estimating.

 

[KevinKerrMusic]

I would definitely suggest starting with 64gb, 128 is rediculously huge even for a 128 track project.

The thing is if your setup doesn't require that extra RAM, having it is no benefit whatsoever, it will just sit there completely unused, won't speed anything up whatsoever. RAM doesn't improve performance at all, adequate RAM merely avoids having to write to the pagefile.

On an audio system, you would set a specific SATA or NVME drove as a dedicated cache for those moments where a little extra ram is required and that prevents any slowdown far cheaper than having crazy amounts of ram for little purpose

So long as you have a suitably configured drive setup - OS, libraries, cache and storage, that's where performance is going to be far better optimised. This is from Ableton, but applies to any DAW

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209069989-Using-multiple-hard-drives

I'm not saying your requirements aren't going to be there for 128Gb, it's just it's a huge waste of money if the system isn't going to use it and as your already doubling your current setup, you may find that's enough. My point is guage by experience rather than estimating.

Well, I've made adjustments based on your expertise so far. And to be honest, its easy enough to upgrade RAM so I'll start out with the 64gb and upgrade in a few months if it feels necessary.

(Getting by on the 32 was a huge burden btw, my mind set is really just future proofing as technology and sample size increase). Was happy to just set up from the get go.

But I'll go with the 64 for now, assuming you think the ones I've suggested will work fine with my build?

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[BlessedSquirrel]

Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 64GB (2 x 32GB) 3600MHz Kit - PVS464G360C8K​

or​

Patriot Viper 4 Blackout Series DDR4 64GB (2 x 32GB) 3600MHz Kit - ​

PBS464G360C8K​

Apologies, completely forgot you'd posted the RAM specs.

Firstly Patriot is some of the most reliable and best performing RAM on the market, so excellent choice.

I would personally suggest the Blackout Series RAM which is more aimed at high performance rather than "gaming", it's a little more hardwearing.

Knowing if it's going to be compatible with your board is a little bit of an unknown with any kind of RAM, it really is a case of try and return if any issues. On paper though, those dimms are compatible.

That particular RAM model number isn't implictly listed on the motherboard approved vendors list, but plenty of other Patriot Dimms are. And QVL lists are purely the sticks they've explicitly tested, it doesn't mean they're the only DIMMS supported.

TUF GAMING Z690-PLUS WIFI D4 | Motherboards | ASUS Global

ASUS TUF GAMING Z690-PLUS WIFI D4 is an Intel® Z690 (LGA 1700) ATX gaming motherboard with 16 DrMOS power stages, PCIe 5.0, four M.2 slots, WiFi 6, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type-C®, and Aura Sync RGB lighting.

www.asus.com

I would suggest buy it from Amazon (direct or "Dispatched by", try to avoid marketplace sellers as they aren't bound by Amazon's return policy) who will accept a return no questions asked, and then if you have issues, it's very easy to get a replacement.

 

[BlessedSquirrel]

Oh, and additionally, it is still worth getting matched pairs for DDR4 as they operated in dual channel.

 

[KevinKerrMusic]

Thanks so much for the all the help.

Going to commit to the purchase today.
I've made some other tweaks now due to kicking the +64gb down the road.

Just comparing some slightly higher spec GPUs now.

 

[BlessedSquirrel]

Thanks so much for the all the help.

Going to commit to the purchase today.
I've made some other tweaks now due to kicking the +64gb down the road.

Just comparing some slightly higher spec GPUs now.

What are you specs looking like now? There are a couple of other areas like motherboard that could be better optimised for audio.

 

[KevinKerrMusic]

Here is what I'm thinking.
(With a separate 2x32gb PVB Ram)

Case
COOLERMASTER MASTERBOX TD500 MESH ARGB GAMING CASE
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 12-Core Processor i7-12700K (3.6GHz) 25MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUS® TUF GAMING Z690-PLUS WIFI D4 (LGA1700, USB 3.2, PCIe 5.0) - ARGB Ready
Memory (RAM)
4GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 2400MHz (1 x 4GB)
Graphics Card
6GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2060 - HDMI, DP - VR Ready!
1st M.2 SSD Drive
500GB SEAGATE FIRECUDA 530 GEN 4 PCIe NVMe (up to 7000MB/R, 3000MB/W)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
2TB SEAGATE FIRECUDA 530 GEN 4 PCIe NVMe (up to 7300MB/R, 6900MB/W)
1st Storage Drive
4TB SEAGATE IRONWOLF PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 128MB CACHE
Power Supply
CORSAIR 1000W RMx SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1.5 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
Corsair iCUE H100i ELITE CAPELLIX RGB Hydro Series High Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Extra Case Fans
1x 120mm Black Case Fan (configured to extract from rear/roof)
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 11 Professional 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Google Chrome™
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 11 to 13 working days
Promotional Item
Get Monster Hunter: Rise & more with select Intel® Core™ Processors
Price: £0.00 including VAT and Delivery

Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/intel-z690-pc/d33a!CB!Tb/

 

[KevinKerrMusic]

Would the onboard motherboard audio matter? If I am explicitly using external audio interfaces?

 

[BlessedSquirrel]

Would the onboard motherboard audio matter? If I am explicitly using external audio interfaces?

No, a soundcard will bypass on board audio, just moves the raw audio signal through to the soundcard for processing.

What's you max budget for this? Can see a couple of areas that could do with a little tweak, but don't want to out you over your threshold.

 

[KevinKerrMusic]

No, a soundcard will bypass on board audio, just moves the raw audio signal through to the soundcard for processing.

What's you max budget for this? Can see a couple of areas that could do with a little tweak, but don't want to out you over your threshold.

The goalposts have moved due to some recent tweaks. It's hard to say if I have a hard budget in mind. I suppose for the right reasons ~£100+ couldn't hurt.

What areas are you thinking?

 

[BlessedSquirrel]

The goalposts have moved due to some recent tweaks. It's hard to say if I have a hard budget in mind. I suppose for the right reasons ~£100+ couldn't hurt.

What areas are you thinking?

Well, motherboard is a significant impact to DPC latency which I'm sure you're familiar with.

For audio, this is the realtime latency of USB peripherals, specifically thinking related to Audio Interfaces and any USB keyboards / controllers etc. Poor DPC performance leads to delayed audio and pops and clicks.

On Z690, there are only really a handful of decent performing mobo's related to DPC. You'd normally want between 50 - 100ns delay on a decent audio board.

That Asus Tufs tend to have pretty poor DPC latency, we would normally recommend the Strix, it's still not quite where we want it to be like on the AMD boards, but it's certainly better.

ASUS ROG Strix Z690-I Gaming Wi-Fi Review

In for review is the recently previewed ASUS ROG Strix Z690-I Gaming Wi-Fi. This is a flagship small form factor motherboard featuring the best that ASUS and

www.techporn.ph

With that in mind, I'd adjust the build a little as follows:

Case
COOLERMASTER MASTERBOX TD500 MESH ARGB GAMING CASE
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 12-Core Processor i7-12700K (3.6GHz) 25MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUS® ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 (LGA1700, USB 3.2, PCIe 5.0) - ARGB Ready better DPC performance
Memory (RAM)
4GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 2400MHz (1 x 4GB)
Graphics Card
6GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2060 - HDMI, DP - VR Ready!
1st M.2 SSD Drive
500GB SEAGATE FIRECUDA 530 GEN 4 PCIe NVMe (up to 7000MB/R, 3000MB/W)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
2TB SEAGATE FIRECUDA 530 GEN 4 PCIe NVMe (up to 7300MB/R, 6900MB/W)
1st Storage Drive
4TB SEAGATE IRONWOLF PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 128MB CACHE
1st Storage Drive
256GB PCS 2.5" SSD, SATA 6 Gb (500MB/R, 400MB/W) Dedicated cache drive, you configure this in the DAW, it will default to C drive which you don't want and will impact performance
Power Supply
CORSAIR 1000W RMx SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1.5 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
Corsair iCUE H100i ELITE CAPELLIX RGB Hydro Series High Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Extra Case Fans
1x 120mm Black Case Fan (configured to extract from rear/roof)
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 10 Professional 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence Stick with Windows 10 for now, still a lot of plugins and instruments that don't support windows 11.
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Google Chrome™
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 11 to 13 working days
Price: £2,175.00 including VAT and Delivery

Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/intel-z690-pc/YUQWFt5F!7/

 

[KevinKerrMusic]

Amazing Thanks.

Out of curiosity. When you initially suggested the Firecuda 530 for the (I'm assuming dedicated OS drive). Is 500 over kill?
I'm thinking of partitioning it 300/200 (Not sure which way) and keeping the C drive purely for OS and nothing else. The remainder could then be the cache drive you suggested?

Or is there a benefit in keeping the OS drive on 500gb dedicated?

Would that ROG Strix still remain fully compatible with everything else?
Thanks

 

[BlessedSquirrel]

Amazing Thanks.

Out of curiosity. When you initially suggested the Firecuda 530 for the (I'm assuming dedicated OS drive). Is 500 over kill?
I'm thinking of partitioning it 300/200 (Not sure which way) and keeping the C drive purely for OS and nothing else. The remainder could then be the cache drive you suggested?

Or is there a benefit in keeping the OS drive on 500gb dedicated?

Would that ROG Strix still remain fully compatible with everything else?
Thanks

I wouldn't partition the OS drive. Partitioning isn't really used these days as you have dedicated drives for each purpose. 500gb would be a good size so long as your plugins will all fit on there.

You couldnt have the cache on the OS drive even if it was partitioned, it's still a single drive write path so your essentially duplicating the writes which are limited by the drive and that would cause the same slowdowns as if it were on c drive.

You always have a dedicated cache for audio for maximum performance, especially if you've got a high number of channels.

The motherboard is the same vhipset as any other z690, just a higher quality. Everything else has the same compatibility.

 

[sck451]

I wouldn't partition the OS drive. Partitioning isn't really used these days as you have dedicated drives for each purpose. 500gb would be a good size so long as your plugins will all fit on there.

You couldnt have the cache on the OS drive even if it was partitioned, it's still a single drive write path so your essentially duplicating the writes which are limited by the drive and that would cause the same slowdowns as if it were on c drive.

You always have a dedicated cache for audio for maximum performance, especially if you've got a high number of channels.

The motherboard is the same vhipset as any other z690, just a higher quality. Everything else has the same compatibility.

It might well be worth getting another M.2 drive (or messaging PCS to ask them to add it) to get a dedicated cache drive. I wouldn't really want a SATA drive for that purpose, and the Z690 has four (!) M.2 slots... Even the 256GB PCS drive should be plenty, I'd have thought.

 

[Scott]

Your manual shows the following:

Fairly standard. You should always check the actual manual rather than external sources. Large manufacturers will often customise the BIOS, significantly different from the likes of AMI or etc would have as default.