Windows 10 May 2020 Update

[ubuysa]

I've no news on exactly when the May upgrade of Windows 10 will be released to the public. I do know that it's essentially been in a bug fix status since last November and that I will clean install it - as I do with all upgrades.

I've been keeping an eye on what's going to be new in the May 2020 release and there's one new feature that on the face of it looks good, but which I fear will not be as useful as we think; Cloud Reset.

Microsoft explain how this works fully here.

The general idea is that when you 'reset' your PC, instead of using the install files already on your PC (which may be corrupted), the Cloud Reset feature downloads a new copy of the Windows 10 install files (all 4GB of them) and uses those to do the 'reset'.

Now that sounds like a neat alternative to a clean install, but it's not.

If you look through the Microsoft document I linked to above, you'll see that although Cloud Reset downloads a new copy of Windows 10, it gathers drivers from the previous OS and installs those drivers after the reinstall. Bad or wrong drivers are the number one cause of problems and we all are always telling people who have complex driver issues to clean install and allow Windows update to find the (new) right drivers.

This reuse of existing drivers seems to be to be a dumb move on Microsoft's part and it's the principal reason why I won't either be using Cloud Reset nor recommending it to others.

 

[Tony1044]

One of the ways Apple have been long ahead of MS is their ability to boot to a shell that does a full download and install - it's built into their BIOS (and of course is much easier to manage for them as they own the whole hardware and software stack) but this is a definite step in the right direction.

It would be nice to have an option not to use existing drivers and I agree that this seems a bit of an odd move on MS's part as it renders it useless for a large portion of use cases.

 

[SpyderTracks]

One of the ways Apple have been long ahead of MS is their ability to boot to a shell that does a full download and install - it's built into their BIOS (and of course is much easier to manage for them as they own the whole hardware and software stack) but this is a definite step in the right direction.

It would be nice to have an option not to use existing drivers and I agree that this seems a bit of an odd move on MS's part as it renders it useless for a large portion of use cases.

It’s so powerful the way Apple do it, really does make reinstalling so simple. I was really hoping MS we’re going to learn from that.

I don’t understand why after downloading an image from the internet they’d retain old drivers, seems a very obvious flaw in the whole process and needless as the driver install is so automated these days anyway.

 

[Tony1044]

It’s so powerful the way Apple do it, really does make reinstalling so simple. I was really hoping MS we’re going to learn from that.

I don’t understand why after downloading an image from the internet they’d retain old drivers, seems a very obvious flaw in the whole process and needless as the driver install is so automated these days anyway.

My 2010 MacBook Pro could do it, so it's not exactly a new idea!

 

[SpyderTracks]

My 2010 MacBook Pro could do it, so it's not exactly a new idea!

I just rebuilt my 2010 MacBook Pro after I’d messed around getting Mojave on there. So easy.

Plus the way they list all the previous versions of the OS again makes it very simple to revert back to a previous installation. So much MS can learn from that.

 

[ubuysa]

I'm hearing that Windows 10 2004 is slated for 28th May...

 

[Scott]

WRT the drivers, does it use ALL of the previous drivers or only the ones that it can't find updates for? If it's the latter then that's possibly not so bad (a log might be nice though). If it's every driver, other than those built in of course, then that just seems bonkers to me.

 

[ubuysa]

WRT the drivers, does it use ALL of the previous drivers or only the ones that it can't find updates for? If it's the latter then that's possibly not so bad (a log might be nice though). If it's every driver, other than those built in of course, then that just seems bonkers to me.

I can only comment on my interpretation of what I've read, but it seems clear that it saves all of the currently installed drivers and reinstalls those after the Windows install.

 

[Tony1044]

I can only comment on my interpretation of what I've read, but it seems clear that it saves all of the currently installed drivers and reinstalls those after the Windows install.

That is such a bad idea. Reinstall from Microsoft unless they are not present and then perhaps fall back to the ones saved.

 

[ubuysa]

I'm going to try an experiment. I'm upgrading my old Optimus IV to 2004 (via the Insider Program). I'll ensure that all drivers are up to date and then deliberately downgrade the Realtek audio driver to something pretty old. I'll then attempt a Cloud Reset and see what Realtek driver is installed afterwards.....

 

[Tony1044]

I'm going to try an experiment. I'm upgrading my old Optimus IV to 2004 (via the Insider Program). I'll ensure that all drivers are up to date and then deliberately downgrade the Realtek audio driver to something pretty old. I'll then attempt a Cloud Reset and see what Realtek driver is installed afterwards.....

I'd be -very- interested in this.

MS are pushing something similar into the Enterprise as well with something called Autopilot. Instead of buying a desktop or laptop that then has to be imaged via Config Manager, the likes of HP, Dell and Lenovo upload a device identifier file into a customers Intune environment (cloud based management and control for devices).

During the out of box experience, as soon as Windows connects to the internet, it looks for an Intune configuration and if it finds one will configure the device. The plus side is that it doesn't remove any drivers. It will remove software (bloatware etc) if made to do so and can do two things which I personally really do like - it can switch the license out in the background (so if it shipped with home or pro but should be enterprise, it just happens, along with any feature changes) and can add a user. But it adds the user as a non-local administrator unless told specifically to make them one.

Which means that you lose that security vulnerability that is usually present in Windows - by default it makes the first user to run through the OoBE a local administrator.

It works really rather well, too.

 

[ubuysa]

So I upgraded my 1909 build to 2004 and checked the Realtek card reader driver, it was dated 2015. I uninstalled it (and the driver) and installed the driver from the original driver disk (dated 2012). I rebooted to be sure that Windows Update didn't automatically update it (it didn't). So then I did a Cloud Reset and asked to delete everything. When the OOBE was done I checked the Realtek card reader driver and it was the 2012 one. I then clicked Update Driver for the Realtek card reader and it installed the 2015 driver I had at first.

This shows that for this device at least, Cloud Reset reused the existing driver and did not look for an updated one. That's bad.

Incidentally, Cloud Reset took an age to complete. I didn't measure it but I'm convinced I could have downloaded a copy of the install files to a USB stick, clean booted it and reinstalled Windows in less time (or at least no more).

 

[Tony1044]

So I upgraded my 1909 build to 2004 and checked the Realtek card reader driver, it was dated 2015. I uninstalled it (and the driver) and installed the driver from the original driver disk (dated 2012). I rebooted to be sure that Windows Update didn't automatically update it (it didn't). So then I did a Cloud Reset and asked to delete everything. When the OOBE was done I checked the Realtek card reader driver and it was the 2012 one. I then clicked Update Driver for the Realtek card reader and it installed the 2015 driver I had at first.

This shows that for this device at least, Cloud Reset reused the existing driver and did not look for an updated one. That's bad.

Incidentally, Cloud Reset took an age to complete. I didn't measure it but I'm convinced I could have downloaded a copy of the install files to a USB stick, clean booted it and reinstalled Windows in less time (or at least no more).

Well that is a huge shame. Thank you for trying it out.

I think there were issues today - I was building a test VM in Hyoer-V using the downloadable "Dev" image - 16GB or so and it felt like it took 2-3 times longer than it ought to have.

I suspect part of the issue is that MS have been diverting Azure resources into Teams first and O365 collaboration second. Everything else is taking a bit of a back seat.

They've gone from c40 million Teams users in March to c78 million now.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Well that is a huge shame. Thank you for trying it out.

I think there were issues today - I was building a test VM in Hyoer-V using the downloadable "Dev" image - 16GB or so and it felt like it took 2-3 times longer than it ought to have.

I suspect part of the issue is that MS have been diverting Azure resources into Teams first and O365 collaboration second. Everything else is taking a bit of a back seat.

They've gone from c40 million Teams users in March to c78 million now.

Hmmm, seems MS website to download windows 10 is crawling atm. Seems to be any site on the MS domain.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Windows 10 image download site now broken... either they're prepping for the new release, or something else is afoot.

 

[Tony1044]

I wonder what they might be doing....?

 

[SpyderTracks]

I wonder what they might be doing....?

I’ll try again now, see if there’s any “risen from the dead” activity.

Edit: Site's back up but still not updated to latest image

 

[Tony1044]

I’ll try again now, see if there’s any “risen from the dead” activity.

Edit: Site's back up but still not updated to latest image

Dagnaggit. I was hoping they'd have upticked it on the quiet.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Dagnaggit. I was hoping they'd have upticked it on the quiet.

I guess by US time, it wouldn't go live til around 5pm our time, so fingers crossed.

 

[ubuysa]

I've been having fun too. I decided to see whether a Cloud Reset keeping programs and data was any different (from a drivers point of view) from a delete everything reset. It wasn't and still used the old card reader driver, but the process hung on me at the point where it's restarting after the download and initial install. I left it for 15 minutes and it had clearly stuck so I powered off and rebooted and the process seemed top pick up as though a normal restart had happened. The system behaved normally for the short time I was testing it.

I then decided to time a Cloud Reset, because it really seems a long process and this time it hung on me again but in a different place. This time it was during the post-restart setup. This time it just dropped to a black screen with a cursor and stayed there.

On powering off and rebooting I got the BIOS splash screen but then a black screen with a cursor. The disk light was flickering rapidly too. On inserting a USB stick with Windows 10 1909 on it I held F7 down on boot (to select the boot device) the option brightened on the BIOS splash screen showing that it had been selected - but then dropped straight to the black screen with cursor again. Nothing that I tried would get past that black screen with cursor.

I pulled my SATA HDD (this is my laptop remember) and then reinserted it to be sure it was properly seated. No change.

I then pulled it again, stuck it in a special caddy I've had for decades (it's one of these), and plugged it into my desktop. It was recognised OK and all the Windows folders seemed to be there. A chkdsk /f found no errors. I reformatted it ok, stuck it back in the lap[top and this time I was able to select the USB drive and clean install Windows 10 1909. That's now gone without problems.

These issues might well be down to my SATA SSD of course, it does date from 2013 and it's had a lot of work to do over the last 24 hours! It has however further dented my confidence in Cloud Reset, and since I'm firmly convinced it's no faster than a clean install from bootable media - it's really no more convenient either with no information to tell you what's happening at each stage - I will neither be using nor recommending Cloud Reset at present. Of course, we can expect it to get better in future releases.