Repaste advice

[ubuysa]

MY 18-month old Optimus IV is idling a tad over 10 deg C hotter than it used to (50 deg C instead of around 35 deg C). I've just done a good clean of the fan and vanes etc. and that's not made much difference. Might the thermal paste be breaking down?

I've never re-pasted a CPU so I'm looking for some guidance.

1. What paste should I get? Naturally I want the good stuff not the cheap stuff.

2. What cleaner should I get for removing the old paste?

3. How much paste to use? How to apply it?

4. In the pic below do the screws holding the copper cooler down just unscrew or is there more to it than that? Will I then be able to lift the cooler and heat pipe clear or is there anything at the fan end holding it down?

5. How tight should I do the screws when refitting?

I'm a novice at this (it's hardware you see - I don't usually do hardware ) so any other helpful advice would be very welcome.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Arctic mx4 generally comes out as a good choice

I find the easiest way to apply it is put just under a pea sized blob in the center of the cpu, then spread it with an old credit card or something as evenly and thinly as possible. What you want to avoid is surplus leaking out the sides once the cooling plate is back on. It's pretty sticky stuff, so can get a bit messy. As for cleaners, some good old pure alcohol 90% isopropyl if you can get it as that not only cleans well but evaporates quick. A normal tissue dabbed in it will do.

The screws are usually fixed to the cooling plate ie, don't fully unscrew so they can be removed. When retightening, you don't need to hugely tighten them, just to the point where you can start to feel resistance like screwing a bottle up, just before its fully tight.

Good toms guide [URL="http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/333968-28-thermal-paste-removal-installation-guide]here[/URL]
Hope that helps.

EDIT: mantadog's right, the pea size is really for desktop chips, much less for mobile, apologies.

 

[mantadog]

it could very well be the paste is past its best, many of the cheaper pastes do harden and dry out over time I have noticed my 3 y/o desktop has the same issue. But I don't push it that hard so im not in a hurry to fix it. The paste PCS use is pretty decent but it does seem to go off like many of the other lower spec ones.

1. What paste should I get? Naturally I want the good stuff not the cheap stuff.
MX 4 is a decent call because its non conductive and really spending much more doesn't get you much for your money IMO. But really anything mid range or better.

2. What cleaner should I get for removing the old paste?
You can buy dedicated products for it from amazon or wherever, but yeah some isopropyl alcohol is ideal.

3. How much paste to use? How to apply it?
This is where I might differ from above, apply a pea sized lump - think small pea - if anything its a large cooked grain of rice for smaller chips. (you don't need much at all) and then place the heatsink over the top of the dot of paste and let the heatsink spread it out. Pre spreading can lead to issues though this is a topic of huge contention on t'internet

4. In the pic below do the screws holding the copper cooler down just unscrew or is there more to it than that? Will I then be able to lift the cooler and heat pipe clear or is there anything at the fan end holding it down?
the fan and heatsink assembly should just lift off after undoing the screws. I would think you will need to undo some screws on the fan end too but just to enable the fan to be lifted out with the heatsink as one unit.

5. How tight should I do the screws when refitting?
not very, just enough so you know its secure, nothing more.

 

[nathanjrb]

I believe 'pre-spreading' can cause imperfections and pockets of unevenness. When I repasted my CPU I did a blob shaped like a grain of rice, then sat the cooler directly on top, then I twisted it a few degrees left and right and used the weight to spread it. I've had great temps ever since. That was for a PC though and the cooler was is a lot heavier.

 

[ubuysa]

Are the heatsinks connected, so will I have to re-paste the GPU at the same time?

 

[Wozza63]

If you are not confident doing it then I wouldn't bother as long as it isn't reaching dangerously high temperatures.

 

[ubuysa]

If you are not confident doing it then I wouldn't bother as long as it isn't reaching dangerously high temperatures.

Oh I'm quite confident I can do it, it's just that I've never done it before. There is a first time for everything.

And I realise my temps are not a worry, although 50 deg C at idle is warm I think, but if it needs re-pasting I want to do it early before the CPU does start to get hot. Heat is the main killer of laptops.

 

[Wozza63]

I wouldn't say so for a laptop. A desktop maybe 50'c is slightly worrying but laptops are designed to run at higher temperatures. My laptop CPU is currently running at 45'c just browsing and using Word with a few programs open in the background.

Heat isn't the main killer of laptops, its stupidity. I've seen so many people just chuck the laptop on the bed with no ventilation underneath. Your laptop is only 18 months old, this is not enough time for the thermal paste to become ineffective. I would say around 3 years is probably the best time to do it. Or if your temperatures are starting to get dangerously high even after cleaning out the laptop. My recommendation is a can of compressed air right in the vent for the fan and inside the fan too. You'll be surprised what might still be stuck in the exhaust/intake vent (depends on laptop which it is).

And lastly, software. Have you considered that there may be a lot more running in the background now than there was when you first got the laptop? Even at idle there are still many things you will probably have installed that use CPU time. Perhaps a clear out of start up programs and services might be a good move?

 

[ubuysa]

I wouldn't say so for a laptop. A desktop maybe 50'c is slightly worrying but laptops are designed to run at higher temperatures. My laptop CPU is currently running at 45'c just browsing and using Word with a few programs open in the background.

That's a good point, though it is just a tad hotter now that it was.

Heat isn't the main killer of laptops, its stupidity. I've seen so many people just chuck the laptop on the bed with no ventilation underneath. Your laptop is only 18 months old, this is not enough time for the thermal paste to become ineffective. I would say around 3 years is probably the best time to do it. Or if your temperatures are starting to get dangerously high even after cleaning out the laptop. My recommendation is a can of compressed air right in the vent for the fan and inside the fan too. You'll be surprised what might still be stuck in the exhaust/intake vent (depends on laptop which it is).

I like to think I'm several decades past the stupid stage but I know what you mean. It's just had a good clean, I do it quite regularly.

And lastly, software. Have you considered that there may be a lot more running in the background now than there was when you first got the laptop? Even at idle there are still many things you will probably have installed that use CPU time. Perhaps a clear out of start up programs and services might be a good move?

That's another good point, though again I know what I'm doing with Windows etc. and it's always lean and clean.

Many thanks for the help and advice though, I appreciate it.

 

[mantadog]

Are the heatsinks connected, so will I have to re-paste the GPU at the same time?

Yes they will be, you will need to remove both heatsinks and the fan all at once. It should come off all in 1 piece once you undo all the screws.

 

[ubuysa]

Thanks for all the good advice guys. I'll let you know when (and if) I do a respaste and how I get on.

 

[sirbb]

Can you post some photos too? I am sure I will have to do this to my Optimus IV before long and, having followed all your other threads and taken your excellent advice about other things, would consider this a definitive lesson in how to change the paste!

 

[dogbot]

Ubuysa, do not listen to them . They are trying to make a simple job look hard.

1. Any left over wallpaper paste should do. If unavailable, use flour and water to the ratio 10:1.374. Mix in a blender for 30 min or, better still, give it to the wife with a hand wisk, it will give her something to do for a change. ON NO ACCOUNT USE CHEWING GUM it ruins the taste.

2. Separate the cooling plate with a hammer and chisel and chip away the paste residue. Any stubborn bits can be removed with an angle grinder. Wipe away any dust with something alcoholic. I find a tin (preferably 2) of Newcastle brown ale does the trick and also gives a feeling of wellbeing when all is done.

3. A bowl full should be enough. Anything squeezed out or left over can be used to paper a wall or bake a cake (depending on what paste was used). Use a large wooden spoon which is non conductive.

4. There is no need to disconnect everything. A large pair of pliers should be sufficient to bend the heat pipe so the plate is clear.

5. Fit a screwdriver adapter to a power drill. Press down on the screw until the base of the laptop is in contact with the desk. This should stop any 'bounce' as the screw is tightened. Squeeze the drill trigger gently.

That is all there is to it. Now to finish the brown ale.

 

[nathanjrb]

Ubuysa, do not listen to them . They are trying to make a simple job look hard.

1. Any left over wallpaper paste should do. If unavailable, use flour and water to the ratio 10:1.374. Mix in a blender for 30 min or, better still, give it to the wife with a hand wisk, it will give her something to do for a change. ON NO ACCOUNT USE CHEWING GUM it ruins the taste.

2. Separate the cooling plate with a hammer and chisel and chip away the paste residue. Any stubborn bits can be removed with an angle grinder. Wipe away any dust with something alcoholic. I find a tin (preferably 2) of Newcastle brown ale does the trick and also gives a feeling of wellbeing when all is done.

3. A bowl full should be enough. Anything squeezed out or left over can be used to paper a wall or bake a cake (depending on what paste was used). Use a large wooden spoon which is non conductive.

4. There is no need to disconnect everything. A large pair of pliers should be sufficient to bend the heat pipe so the plate is clear.

5. Fit a screwdriver adapter to a power drill. Press down on the screw until the base of the laptop is in contact with the desk. This should stop any 'bounce' as the screw is tightened. Squeeze the drill trigger gently.

That is all there is to it. Now to finish the brown ale.

Don't forget the Ronseal!

 

[ubuysa]

At last, some sensible advice provided by a user I know and trust. I do have a couple of questions however...

Ubuysa, do not listen to them . They are trying to make a simple job look hard.

1. Any left over wallpaper paste should do. If unavailable, use flour and water to the ratio 10:1.374. Mix in a blender for 30 min or, better still, give it to the wife with a hand wisk, it will give her something to do for a change. ON NO ACCOUNT USE CHEWING GUM it ruins the taste.

Would this be anaglypta paste or can I use just use regular paste? Porridge is supposed to be good for putting up wallpaper so would that do as well? I've seen on YouTube that warming the paste helps to spread it, so how hot should I get the paste? I'm thinking of getting it to nearly boiling point so it's quite runny, would that be ok?

2. Separate the cooling plate with a hammer and chisel and chip away the paste residue. Any stubborn bits can be removed with an angle grinder. Wipe away any dust with something alcoholic. I find a tin (preferably 2) of Newcastle brown ale does the trick and also gives a feeling of wellbeing when all is done.

As I'm sure you know there are a bewildering array of chisels available. So do I need a cold chisel, a bevel chisel, a firming chisel, a mortise chisel or a dovetail chisel? I do hear there is a butt chisel but I don't like the sound of that one. Please help more here.

Newcastle Brown is not available in Crete. Would Fix Dark do instead?

I do have an angle grinder (anyone with a boat has an ange grinder for God's sake!) but what disk should I fit. Is the CPU cooling plate stainless steel (they call that INOX over here) or is is aluminium? I'm sure you appreciate that I need a different disk depending on the material. You really must give better instructions.

3. A bowl full should be enough. Anything squeezed out or left over can be used to paper a wall or bake a cake (depending on what paste was used). Use a large wooden spoon which is non conductive.

I'm confused. Are we talking about the wallpaper paste or the Fix Dark? A bowl full of Fix Dark doesn't hang paper very well - though it is good in cakes apparently. Not that I'd know I'm not allowed in the galley.

4. There is no need to disconnect everything. A large pair of pliers should be sufficient to bend the heat pipe so the plate is clear.

Oh that's good news. Would it be ok for me to leave the laptop running so I can see the temps coming down as I apply the paste (or the Fix Dark - I'm still confused about that)?

5. Fit a screwdriver adapter to a power drill. Press down on the screw until the base of the laptop is in contact with the desk. This should stop any 'bounce' as the screw is tightened. Squeeze the drill trigger gently.

I have one of those too . Should I use the hammer setting to get more leverage on stubborn screws?

That is all there is to it. Now to finish the brown ale.

I don't know about the brown ale but after that I'll be wearing my brown trousers!

Thanks for the valuable help.

 

[dogbot]

You raise some interesting points Ubuysa but I need to give them some thought. Shortly off to a dynasaur museum so will reply later Maybe I can find some fossilized paste that will be rock hard.

 

[ubuysa]

You raise some interesting points Ubuysa but I need to give them some thought. Shortly off to a dynasaur museum so will reply later Maybe I can find some fossilized paste that will be rock hard.

I've just done it. I used Colgate Advanced Whitening toothpaste. It was easy to spread and although my Optimus now runs hotter than ever (though it's handy for cooking eggs I've found) it does have a dazzling smile...!

 

[Skinnyl]

This is way after the fact.. but here's my 2p for anyone else that reads it.

When I was in the dark clutches of watercooling desktops, before you could buy kits and had to source machined copper blocks from weird websites and used car heater matrix's instead of purpose designed PC rads.. this was the technique I swore by.

1. using some kind of pure solvent, remove all the old paste from the die and the heatsink using a cotton bud or similar.

2. wrap some cling film round your most useful finger so it's relatively tight and wrinkle free. Using your desired paste smear a really small bit on your newly cling filmed finger and rub it into the die and the heatsink where the die meets it. The effect you're looking for is a light covering on both to just fill in all the nooks and crannies.

3. Once a light covering is achieved just add a little extra to make sure of 100% contact, enough to avoid any overspill which might start insulating the die.

After the allotted 'burn in' period I always found temps to be 2/3oC better. Important when you're trying to get an unlocked AMD 1700+ XP to 2.4 Ghz..

Worth nothing that I haven't done this for years, so apologies if this no longer applies to modern tech - converted to laptops a few years back to lessen the draw of meddling.

Cheers.

 

[mantadog]

This is way after the fact.. but here's my 2p for anyone else that reads it.



2. wrap some cling film round your most useful finger so it's relatively tight and wrinkle free. Using your desired paste smear a really small bit on your newly cling filmed finger and rub it into the die and the heatsink where the die meets it. The effect you're looking for is a light covering on both to just fill in all the nooks and crannies.

3. Once a light covering is achieved just add a little extra to make sure of 100% contact, enough to avoid any overspill which might start insulating the die.

That can cause problems with air pockets, though it is a contentious issue it appears modern consensus is the 'pea' method.

 

[ubuysa]

<snip>

And lastly, software. Have you considered that there may be a lot more running in the background now than there was when you first got the laptop? Even at idle there are still many things you will probably have installed that use CPU time. Perhaps a clear out of start up programs and services might be a good move?

This was good advice and I have spent the last few days rooting out all the garbage that runs in the background. I have several tools that leave components running (Ccleaner is the latest tool to do this) and I've stopped these unwanted "helpers" from running. I've also been through my task scheduler task-list, there is a bunch of stuff in there (Google updater, Flash updater) that are configured to run every hour. Now I like to keep stuff up to date as well, but every hour? So I've modified those tasks so that they run once a day.

After all that it's now idling in the high 30's C on all cores which is perfectly fine by me. So thanks Wozza365, much apreciated, +rep duly given.

As an aside, what is the shelf-life of an unopened tube of MX-4 compound? I ordered one (and some cleaner) just in case and I'll now not be repasting - not for a while at any rate!