New PCS PC : Windows Error 41

O

Old_Timer

Bronze Level Poster
Hi everyone.

First of all I'd like to state that my new PC has been RMA'd and has been back at PCS for 2 weeks [This Friday] I have not overclocked the system

Windows 10 Error 41 : "The kernel power event ID 41 error occurs when the computer is shut down, or it restarts unexpectedly. ... If the computer was not shut down cleanly, a Kernel Power Event 41 message is generated. An event 41 is used to report that something unexpected happened that prevented Windows from shutting down correctly."
My PC would just shut down, black screen, like it had been unplugged from the wall. No BSOD, no early warning signs as to what caused the shut down {From within Windows event viewer} The crashes would occur in pairs, usually within 1/2 an hour of each other. The PC usually crashed when the system was stressed. I use an encoding app called "Handbrake". I researched this software triggering this error but there appears to be no issues. The PC has also crashed when sitting idle for 15-20 minutes. It's also crashedwhen simply browsing the web.

Just after the crash, the PC won't re-boot for a minute or so. Totally unresponsive. The PC Power button remains glowing blue during this minute zombie state. After a minute the PC would simply boot up as normal.

I suffered from this infuriating and horrible issue from the very first day of use. I tried everything, within a 3-4 week period, and read everything in order to try and cure this issue, but alas I just had to give up. Defeated

Another issue is that I had this new PC tripping my ring main circuit breaker when simply plugging the 3 pin kettle lead into my wall socket. I also had real issues with the PC identifying USB 3 devices when connected. I've also has issues with PC sound juddering for 10-15 seconds every few hours. The PC would also seem to struggle to boot, IE the mouse movement was juddery etc.

My PC spec :- {I have also added 2 extra drives to the PC. 1 off samsung evo 850 250gb SSD & 1 off seagate barracuda 3tb HDD]

CaseFRACTAL DEFINE R6 BLACK QUIET MID-TOWER CASE
Processor (CPU)AMD Ryzen 7 2700X Eight Core CPU (3.7GHz-4.35GHz/20MB CACHE/AM4)
MotherboardGigabyte X470 AORUS Ultra Gaming: ATX, USB 3.1, SATA 6GBs - RGB Ready
Memory (RAM)32GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 2666MHz (2 x 16GB)
Graphics Card8GB AMD RADEON™ RX 580 - HDMI, 3 x DP - DX® 12
1st Storage Drive1TB Samsung 860 QVO 2.5" SSD, SATA 6Gb/s (upto 550MB/sR | 520MB/sW)
2nd Storage Drive3TB SATA-III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 7200RPM, 64MB CACHE
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Power SupplyCORSAIR 1000W RMx SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor CoolingNoctua NH-U14S Ultra Quiet Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal PasteCOOLER MASTER MASTERGEL MAKER THERMAL COMPOUND
Sound CardONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)
USB/Thunderbolt OptionsMIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating SystemGenuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]
Operating System LanguageUnited Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery MediaWindows 10 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Supplied on DVD
Office SoftwareFREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365 (Operating System Required)
Anti-VirusNO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
BrowserFirefox™
Warranty3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
DeliverySTANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build TimeStandard Build - Approximately 5 to 7 working days


Things that I tried in order to cure said problem :-

Updated BIOS, from Gigabytes site. [This was done only a few days ago, as a last resort]
Re-installed Windows 10
Upgraded Windows 10 to PRO version
Tested memory during start-up, no errors found
Removed surge protection from main outlet.
Tried a different kettle lead.
Used PC at another address, same issues.
Changed my Ring mains circuit breaker.
Checked all data cable connections for positive fit.
Checked all power connections to and from motherboard/psu/drives etc
Checked all hard drives for errors.
UPDATED ALL DEVICE DRIVERS
Changed power settings to disable sleep/hybernation
Diasabled "fast start-up" in power settings
Monitored temps when under load, nothing out of the ordinary [cpu @ 65 degress, VRM a touch higher]
Stress tested the system with AIDA64 for an hour. Nothing out of the ordinary except a ONE TIME CRASH [2nd crash of a pair]
Ran virus/malware checker
Ran sfc /scannow in safe mode. No issues.

Things I have not tried [That some have had success with] :-
[These items listed below are beyond my skill and I also don't think I should consider trying them myself.

Re-seated CPU
Checked mounting of motherboard to chassis, to check for shorts
Swapped motherboards
Stripped everything down and re-assembled.
Tried the system while connected to a UPS [I have since bought an APC UPS Pro 1500va 865 Watt]

____

This is not the first PC I have purchased from PCS. I was delighted with the first one, which was plumbed into the exact same position, using the same external USB devices, using the exact same software. I had no issues whatsoever with that system.

I am hoping that PCS cure this absolutely horrible issue, but I have this horrible feeling that they won't find an issue. I think there's an issue with the PSU and/or motherboard.

I am wondering if anyone out here has had this issue and managed to cure it, with something I have not listed here.

I thank everyone in advance for their input here.
 
T

Tony1044

Prolific Poster
Given the sequence of events and that the PC trips your breaker, my money would be a faulty PSU and I'd suggest not even using it at this point until it's sorted. A circuit breaker popping in the ring main is not to be ignored or sniffed at.

I would seriously recommend talking to PCS - if you're comfortable and feel competent to do so, I believe that they might even ship one to you for you to fit.
 
O

Old_Timer

Bronze Level Poster
Many thanks for the reply Tony.

I actually RMA'd the PC a week and a half ago.

I will update this thread when I have an idea what PCS have/have not found.
 
ubuysa

ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
I agree with Tony1044, from the symptoms it does sound as though the PSU is the most likely culprit.

The error 41 is a red herring I'm afraid. It's a symptom not a cause, all it tells you is that Windows didn't shut down properly. Thats all it tells you, specifically it doesn't tell you why Windows did not shut down properly.
 
O

Old_Timer

Bronze Level Poster
@ubuysa . I really hope you're correct about the PSU. I spoke to PCS very early with this problem and they suggested the PSU. They also wanted the original kettle lead back to check out aswell.

Fingers crossed here.

On a side note, I actually had this issue 3-4 years ago with my old PC. It started happening right after an Nvidia driver update. Rolled the driver back and no issues again. Funny old world.
 
ubuysa

ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
Error 41 catches a lot of people. Its badly named IMO, it would be better if it said Failed Shutdown.

I have confidence in PCS, as long as they can reproduce the issue on their test bench...

[emoji3]
 
O

Old_Timer

Bronze Level Poster
"I have confidence in PCS, as long as they can reproduce the issue on their test bench... "

Now that's the bit I'm worried about.
 
O

Old_Timer

Bronze Level Poster
Hi @ubuysa

Just an update. I've just heard back from PCS and they've decided to change the CPU/Motherboard/PSU. They are also going to change out the 1tb 860 QVO SSD.

Pretty much fantastic customer service really. I really couldn't ask for more. Just outstanding
 
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O

Old_Timer

Bronze Level Poster
I was updated yesterday via a "Fault Report"

It is heartening for me to be informed that PC Specialists also experienced the BSOD/Crashing issue on the PC.

The USB issue really was driving me nuts also. I updated the chipset drivers, from the Gigabyte site [V18.50.16.01]. Symptoms were that USB 3 devices [external hard drives etc] sometimes showed in device manager and were accessible in explorer, and sometimes they were not. I had these symptoms before I updated the drivers..and I had them afterwards also. Unplugging USB cables then re-connecting *sometimes* made them visible. I am pleased that PCS have deduced that it was only a driver issue...

I only ever had one BSOD. It happened when I was simply removing files from a hard drive, prior to packing up before sending back to PCS.

The SSD issue also irked me a little. My old Samsung EVO 850 has had a total of approx 2.6TB of writes over an 18 month period of heavy use. The new 1TB Samsung 860, supplied with the new pc, had more writes then the 850 before I even had a chance to us it. I fully appreciate that modern SSD's last a long time, but to be honest the new 860, when checked by myself, gave me a little of the "bought used from ebay feeling" about it. It must be PCS's testing routine of their PC's before despatch, that added these writes....

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The PC was due to be returned today but alas, it's "delayed in transit"

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ubuysa

ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
That's good news! Well, apart from the late delivery....

Modern SSDs can sustain a huge number of writes to the extent that there is no need now to worry about SSD writes in the way we used to. In all respects the lifespan of a modern SSD can be considered similar to that of an HDD.

It is heartening however to see that PCS replaced your SSD 'just in case'.

Many thanks for posting all this, it's a great example of PCS's customer care policy, I don't know of many other companies that would go to these lengths to satisfy a customer.
 
O

Old_Timer

Bronze Level Poster
"It is heartening however to see that PCS replaced your SSD 'just in case'. "

Indeed. Let's hope they securely erase the original one before sending it back to Samsung..
 
Oussebon

Oussebon

Multiverse Poster
O

Old_Timer

Bronze Level Poster
You can always ask them what their policies are with regards to this if it would help peace of mind on that issue :)
Click to expand...

To be truthful, I shouldn't really need to ask. If it currently isn't part of their returns policy, it really should be...
 
Oussebon

Oussebon

Multiverse Poster
Why don't you point that out to them

Edit: Just checked the returns polices and Ts&Cs of two of PCS's main UK competitors; neither provided explicit (or any other) details of data erasure for returned systems or components.

I've only seen it mentioned on the websites of (some) storage manufacturers rather than system builders:
https://support-en.wd.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/11401

And even then they just say data is erased (and it's worded in a way where that's a by-product of the testing, not the main objective). It also doesn't describe the method in detail.

PCS are covered by relevant data protection laws (DPA 2018 etc) like everyone else.
 
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O

Old_Timer

Bronze Level Poster
I got the PC back today. The case was damaged in transit OR at the factory.

Well, from bad to even worse. I went out to greet the courier, so as to help him carry the heavy box to my house. The box shows no sign of it being dropped apart from a very minor corner knock. The box was actually half open, with one strip of tape securing the box. The PC was not wrapped in a bag. I took the pc out of the box and noticed the damage to the upper corner of the case.

I am massively disappointed with this PC, which was a massive outlay for me. It has been nothing but trouble. I am totally stressed out over this situation.

I have not switched it on. I have not looked inside the PC. I dare not actually.. I just took the photos and sealed the thing back in its box.

I've contacted PCS over this and am awaiting feedback.

Please see the attached photos of said damage.

I appreciate that this post of the thread is NOT about technical support. I feel it is very important that this thread evolve..as this PC surely will.

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Oussebon

Oussebon

Multiverse Poster
That's awful!

Awful anyway, but especially on top of the problems you've already had.

PCS's packaging is usually quite robust. I can't imagine they let it ship like that.

Not sure what anyone here (as in, we customers) can say - obviously you're not expecting them to, just sharing your experience which you're quite right to.

It's pretty shocking, I hope PCS deal with this swiftly and look into what went wrong.

While you're not asking for this, I'd probably be at the stage where I'd be thinking about asking for some kind of goodwill gesture to recognise the severity of the issues, time you've been without the PC, and so forth. Perhaps they might offer a warranty upgrade for free or something.

Components fail, and PCS aren't directly responsible for every failing by their courier, of course, but to have had problems with a fairly new system (it way fairly new, right?) and then get it back in this shape is a very poor experience indeed.
 
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moosEh

moosEh

Administrator
Staff member
Moderator
Hey OLD_TIMER,

I am sorry to hear about this, could you PM me your order number so I can look into this please?
 
J

jerpers

Master
Wow, Fractal cases are really solid (I am currently building inside my 3rd. That must have taken a good knock to crack it like that.

It is a real shame you have had such a bad experience. I highly doubt PCS would send it back in that state. Hopefully it gets resolved quickly so you can properly enjoy your machine.
 
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