Mini PC for programming

[xrchz]

I plan to use my new computer for the following tasks:

• web/email
• writing documents
• watching short videos

which I'm sure has you thinking "get a cheap+efficient Mini PC", but here's
the killer:

• compiling lots of code

In particular, I work on software that can take up to an hour to build and
sometimes I need to build several times in a row when I'm working on a bug,
so I'd like to make this as painless as possible by having a zippy computer.

Additionally, I intend to leave the computer on all the time as an ssh + low
volume web server (plus probably running folding@home) so I want something
that's robust, but efficient and quiet.

Is a Mini PC going to cut it?

A few more details: I'm going to use Arch Linux with Xmonad, so graphics
requirements and general performance requirements should be minimal, except
for the compiling, and I tend to multi task quite heavily with say web
browser, pdf viewer, SML compiler, Inkscape, and LaTeX compiler all running
simultaneously.

This is my attempt at putting a configuration together. How does it look?

Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i5-660 Dual Core (3.33GHz, 4MB Cache) + HD Graphics + Turbo Boost
Motherboard
INTEL® DH57JG: H57 Express Chipset, 10-Channel HD Audio, 2x DDR3
Memory (RAM)
4GB SAMSUNG DDR3 DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (2 X 2GB)
Graphics Card
Intel Graphics Media Accelerator HD + Clear Video HD Technology
Memory - Hard Disk
250GB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
Sound Card
ONBOARD 10 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Facilities
ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
USB Options
8 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL (MIN 2 FRONT PORTS) AS STANDARD
Operating System
NO OPERATING SYSTEM REQUIRED
Office Software
NO OFFICE SOFTWARE
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Stand-Alone Monitor
IIYAMA E2271HDS 22" LED WIDESCREEN, HDMI/DVI-D FULL HD 1920x1080 (£149)
External Keyboard & Mouse
Logitech® Internet 350 USB Keyboard (£9)
Notebook Mouse
Black Logitech® Optical Wheel Mouse USB (£5)
Surge Protection
Belkin 4 Socket 2M Surge Protector with £25,000 Protection! (Special Offer £6)
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour) (£5)

I'm mostly worried about the RAM speed and the motherboard performance, but
I'm not really a hardware guy so I don't know if I should be.

A few random extra Qs:

• I notice that you can't configure the PSU or CPU cooler in the Mini PC.
  Can they ever get noisy?
• The Core i5s are 64-bit, right?
• I don't need the gigabytes, but should I consider a WD Caviar Green for
  power efficiency, speed (and maybe even noise) reasons? It doesn't seem too
  much more expensive. Or SSD?
• What extra stuff do I need to buy if I want 2 monitors? (apart from the
  2nd monitor itself)
• How future-proof is it? I want at least 1 year but hopefully 4.
• How portable are these Mini PCs? I'll probably just leave it sitting in
  my room, but if I wanted to, could I carry it around while travelling?

 

[xrchz]

Update: I've spent a little time checking out the SSDs, as a quiet low-power
option, especially since I don't need a lot of storage. One question: Which
of the SSDs you sell have TRIM support?

 

[Sleinous]

Additionally, I intend to leave the computer on all the time as an ssh + low
volume web server (plus probably running folding@home) so I want something
that's robust, but efficient and quiet.

Hope you'll be folding with us! Although, you wont get much out of a minipc in that respect, unless you put a half decent gpu in there.

In answer to some of your questions:

The RAM is fine, the Samsung memory is great stuff, reliable, stable, and 1333Mhz is more than enough, 1600Mhz and over is only really useful for oc'ing or other very memory intensive apps. Still, the 1333mhz RAM will give you a hard time if you really want to try and stretch it to its limits.

SSDs are expensive, im waiting till they drop way way way down in price before I purchase.

Core i5s do support 64bit yes, and some, (not yours as its the dual core one) will support 128bit when that OS comes out. (As some i5s are quad core - near the top of the range).

No, I upgraded a minipc for a work colleague a little while back, theyre dead silent. Biggest problem is the PSU is usually not of a high wattage so adding a dedicated GPU someday is pretty much out the question.

In terms of that HDD, you really would benefit from ATLEAST a 16mb cached drive, especially as theyre hardly any more expensive. Especially in a minipc, as theyre not teh most powerful machines, you dont want bottlenecks at the HDD especially if youre compiling code.

Yes you could carry it, just about.

2 monitors = (I think on a Intel HD intergrated chipset) not possible, but PCS, Gorman, Meds, Jak etc etc can confirm this or tell me off for getting it all wrong, if im right, it means you really need some kind of dedicated GPU in there, even if it isnt particularly high tech, with, atleast 2 display ports on it, be it HDMI, DVI, DisplayPort or VGA.

WD Caviar Green question - |Is that the one with the 64mb cache? I wasnt too sure if you could add that in a Minipc, but i guess so seeing as the drives are all same size and power req roughly (infact green is more efficient) I'd say YES, 64mb cached drives are the best mechanical drives around, apart from, of course 10000rpm HDDs like velociraptor, but thats a diff story.

Ignore the whole green nonsense, and just focus on teh fact that the WD 10EARS 1TB Green has 64mb cache, and is only like £10 - 15 more for quad storage and 8 times larger onboard cache. Oh and yes...ok...its green lool.

As for your SSD TRIM question, not a clue, hopefully someone else will know.

Hope all that helped

EDIT: CPU cooler, no, again, like I said with the minipc i worked on, theyre dead quiet even with stock fans, and, if youre not overclocking, no need in non stock anyways.

 

[xrchz]

Thanks for the reply Sleinous!

I know SSDs are expensive, but I'm pretty sure I'm not
going to use more than 60GB. Given that fact, SDDs are
better for speed and noise and reliability than HDDs,
right? How fast are they going to come down in price
anyway?

I'm semi-sure the Intel X25-M supports TRIM, but it
would be nice to get confirmation.

Sounds like the Mini PCs from a little while back were
already very quiet - great. I read somewhere on the
forum PCS saying they were getting all new 100% silent
cases "soon" - has that happened yet (or will it in the
next few days so I can benefit)?

Pity about the 2 monitors if they are indeed impossible.
But 22-inch would already be larger than I'm used to and
might be workable on its own, especially with Xmonad.

128-bit? What are you talking about exactly? I think the
Clarkdale and Lynnfield i5s both support exactly the
same set of (S)SSE[n] extensions, and that's the only
thing I could find with a quick Google about 128-bit
registers.

Thanks for the reassurance about 1333Mhz RAM. I don't
think I'm the kind of person to try and stretch it to
its limits... but I don't know just how much stretching
that would mean

 

[xrchz]

UPDATE: Intel says the DH57JG motherboard does support dual display
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=42485

 

[Sleinous]

Good news Make sure you have 2 monitors with different connectors as i suspect that mobo has 1 vga and 1 other connector. Im talking about 128 bit Windows SSDs arent really dropping much yet as the manufacturing costs are still v high. Youd have to check with Mr PCS on the cases Its very hard to out stretch 1333mhz RAM especially if its dual or tri ddr3

 

[xrchz]

"There are currently no mainstream general-purpose processors built to operate on 128-bit integers or addresses" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/128-bit)... What would 128 bit Windows run on?

That motherboard has DVI and HDMI, but I don't know if you can have both monitors running on one or the other, or whether you need one of each - anyone else know about this?

 

[Sleinous]

You need one running on one port and other running on other port, DVI adapters are easy to come by though

As for the processors, thats interesting, could have sworn I read that Intel had already planned for the future but I guess theyd rather drag some more coins out of our wallets by making us upgrade hehe.

EDIT: I forgot to add, with regards to the dual monitors, I wouldnt push it with stuff like gaming, heavy video editing. An integrated chip will struggle with this especially if its having to display out to two monitors.

 

[PCS]

Sounds like the Mini PCs from a little while back were
already very quiet - great. I read somewhere on the
forum PCS saying they were getting all new 100% silent
cases "soon" - has that happened yet (or will it in the
next few days so I can benefit)?

They are due in, but they've been delayed about 1 month

All being well at some point in October we'll have stock.

 

[xrchz]

They are due in, but they've been delayed about 1 month

All being well at some point in October we'll have stock.

That's a pity! How big is the difference between the new stuff and what you've got now?
Also, would it be possible to order something now, then send it back for an upgrade to the better case?
There might be a price difference but if it's not too large I'd pay it.

 

[PCS]

That's a pity! How big is the difference between the new stuff and what you've got now?
Also, would it be possible to order something now, then send it back for an upgrade to the better case?
There might be a price difference but if it's not too large I'd pay it.

The difference is cosmetic and the new case is fanless, so practically silent.

Unfortunately you cannot send it back at a later date to change the case.

 

[xrchz]

All right, a few more questions.

• I guess you don't know more than "some point in October", but at a guess
  would it be early or late? My classes start on October 7 and I'd love to get
  the PC before then; not sure yet how workable the public computers will be
  during any waiting period.
• Can you tell me more about the PSU on the current Mini PC case. In
  particular:
  • Is it 80 PLUS?
  • What's the wattage?
  • How is the fan(s) controlled?
• Any details about the case fan(s)?
• Do I need to order any extra cables to connect up the Iiyama E2271HDS, or
  is an HDMI cable supplied?

Thanks for all your help so far

 

[PCS]

I just noticed the original spec you're looking at. This is a different mini PC and the case for this option will never be silent. The silent cases are from Atom based mini PC's, and it's going to be the very end of October at the earliest before they come into stock.

The current PSU for the Core i5 systems is 120W - I'm not sure if it's 80PLUS, but it's very efficient and not your usual standard PSU size. The Core i5 systems also have a chassis fan which is controlled by the motherboard (Q-fan).

The iiyama monitors come supplied with DVI & HDMI cables as far as I am aware.

 

[xrchz]

Thanks. Do you have a brand name on that PSU?
Is 120W going to be enough for the specs I posted?
It seems very low...

For example they have a Core i3 on this motherboard
consuming a full 120W with just 4 threads
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/intel-dh57jg_6.html

Any option to use a higher wattage?

 

[PCS]

I've just been to check the cases and the PSU we're currently using is 160W. 160W is more than enough for your specs - it's designed to be small, compact and energy efficient. The PSU is made by InWin (the same company that manufacturers the case) and there are no upgrade options available.

If you're looking for a more powerful PC - consider a standard ATX system rather than mini-ITX.

 

[xrchz]

Let me do some arithmetic on wattages.
I'll use conservative (i.e. possibly too high) estimates
based on what information I can find on the 'net.

Intel DH57JG - 40W
Intel Core i5 660 - 73W
4GB 1333Mhz DDR3 RAM - 20W
Intel X25-M SSD - 0.15W
Total: 133.15W

Let me know if I'm way off with any of these.
Looks like 160W, though not 120W, would be enough.

PS I'm guessing you're using the InWin BM 639.
Looks good Do I get to choose the colour?

 

[xrchz]

Getting Ready to Order

I'm finalising my specs now, and would like to run them by the forum members
for any suggestions, recommendations, or warnings. All comments welcome,
please!

It will be a couple of days still, since I need to transfer money from one
bank to another, and also find out what my address in the UK is going to be


I did a search for roughly the same specs DIY-style on scan.co.uk and some
other sites and I'm happy to say the PC Specialist price is no worse (and I
get the extra quality testing, professional build, warranty, etc.). Also it
seems like nobody else sells the Iiyama LED monitors.

Using the Core i5 660 instead of 650---only difference is clock speed
(3.33GHz) as far as I can see---adds £15. Still tossing that one up.

Case
InWin mini-ITX BM639 w/160W PSU
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i5-650 Dual Core (3.20GHz, 4MB Cache) + HD Graphics + Turbo Boost
Motherboard
INTEL® DH57JG: H57 Express Chipset, 10-Channel HD Audio, 2x DDR3
Memory (RAM)
4GB SAMSUNG DDR3 DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (2 X 2GB)
Graphics Card
Intel Graphics Media Accelerator HD + Clear Video HD Technology
2nd Graphics Card
NONE
Memory - 1st Hard Disk
80GB Intel® X25-M 2.5" SSD (34nm / upto 250MB/sR | 70MB/sW)***SPECIAL***
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
NONE
Memory Card Reader
NONE
Sound Card
ONBOARD 10 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Facilities
ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
USB Options
8 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL (MIN 2 FRONT PORTS) AS STANDARD
Bluetooth & Infrared Options
NONE
Operating System
NO OPERATING SYSTEM REQUIRED
Office Software
NO OFFICE SOFTWARE
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Monitor
IIYAMA E2271HDS 22" LED WIDESCREEN, HDMI/DVI-D FULL HD 1920x1080 (£149)
2nd Monitor
NONE
DVI Cable
NONE
Keyboard & Mouse
Logitech® Internet 350 USB Keyboard (£9)
Mouse
Black Logitech® Optical Wheel Mouse USB (£5)
Speakers
NONE
Webcam
NONE
Headsets (VOIP)
NONE
Surge Protection
Belkin 4 Socket 2M Surge Protector with £25,000 Protection! (Special Offer £6)
Printer
NONE
External Hard Drive
NONE
Home Installation
NONE
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour) (£5)
Data Recovery
NONE
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 9 to 12 working days
Price (excluding VAT)
£622.13
Price
£731.00

 

[Gorman]

Looking good, theres only one colour im afraid.

 

[Sleinous]

Ye looks nice, obviously you wont be able to add a dedicated GPU in there due to the low PSU but thats unavoidable.

 

[PCS]

Let me do some arithmetic on wattages.
I'll use conservative (i.e. possibly too high) estimates
based on what information I can find on the 'net.

Intel DH57JG - 40W
Intel Core i5 660 - 73W
4GB 1333Mhz DDR3 RAM - 20W
Intel X25-M SSD - 0.15W
Total: 133.15W

Let me know if I'm way off with any of these.
Looks like 160W, though not 120W, would be enough.

Intel DH57JG - 35W
Intel Core i5 660 - 73W
4GB 1333Mhz DDR3 RAM - 10W
Intel X25-M SSD - 0.15W
Total: 118.15W

Ye looks nice, obviously you wont be able to add a dedicated GPU in there due to the low PSU but thats unavoidable.

The case is not big enough to accept a dedicated GPU anyway.