I think I am happy with this build, but want advice on graphics card please?

[Papalazarou]

Hi,

I am happy with this spec but I want to discuss the graphics card please? The Radeon 7900 XTX is comparable with the 4080 Super from NVidia, but it looks like the power draw of the 7900 is quite a lot higher than the 4080 and so puts me off as over time, my electrcity bill will mean I will make the £92 back that the 4080 costs over the 7900 (does this logic add up, as hearing the 7900 consumes 350 watts + compared to the 4080 Super consuming less than 300 watts on average, does anyone know how much money difference this would be?)

However, I have now seen a couple of videos comparing the 4080 with the 4070 Ti Super and being within 13-18% of the frames of the 4080, the 4070 Ti Super seems like really good value when the 4080 costs £247 more!

I would like to get the communities view on this please and which way you would go?

Thank you!

 

[TonyCarter]

Sorry, but I don't think that's a very good build at all, as you're on a 3 year old CPU, dead-end platform, slow RAM, poor case, poor cooler, and slow SSD/HDD, and arguably too low a PSU for upgradability and efficiency.

If you give us your max budget, examples of the games you intend to play, and what monitor you have (make & model, or resolution and refresh rate), and any usage other than gaming, I'm sure someone will come along to suggest an equivalent build on a newer AMD platform.

 

[Papalazarou]

Thank you for your reply Tony, that is interesting as this has been built by one of the guys in the sales team at PC Specialist, and I had someone else check it and they both told me they thought it was a good build. (they mentioned the Intel CPU was 12th gen, but didn't seem to think it would be a problem).

I am probably looking at spending around £2-2,200.

Games I play are things like Baldurs Gate 3, iRacing, Escape from Tarkov, Grey Zone Warfare and other FPS games similar. I would like to spend this sort of money now to have a decent system that's going to last me a fair few years.

Thank you for your help,
Jamie.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Thank you for your reply Tony, that is interesting as this has been built by one of the guys in the sales team at PC Specialist, and I had someone else check it and they both told me they thought it was a good build. (they mentioned the Intel CPU was 12th gen, but didn't seem to think it would be a problem).

I am probably looking at spending around £2-2,200.

Games I play are things like Baldurs Gate 3, iRacing, Escape from Tarkov, Grey Zone Warfare and other FPS games similar. I would like to spend this sort of money now to have a decent system that's going to last me a fair few years.

Thank you for your help,
Jamie.

What make and model monitor are you using? If you’re buying a new one what’s your budget for it?

I would heavily agree with @TonyCarter that you can do far far better for the money.

Intel are rarely the way to go these days.

 

[Papalazarou]

Awesome, thank you guys. I forgot to mention the monitor, I haven't bought it yet. I am going for a 34" Ultrawide, something like the Samsung Odyssey G5 or maybe the AOC Gaming CU34G2X, which appears to be a very good budget option. To be honest, I am looking at spending about £2500 to include the PC and the monitor ideally, so if you guys have a monitor suggestion to, I would appreciate it.

Thank you,
Jamie.

 

[Papalazarou]

Sorry, but I don't think that's a very good build at all, as you're on a 3 year old CPU, dead-end platform, slow RAM, poor case, poor cooler, and slow SSD/HDD, and arguably too low a PSU for upgradability and efficiency.

If you give us your max budget, examples of the games you intend to play, and what monitor you have (make & model, or resolution and refresh rate), and any usage other than gaming, I'm sure someone will come along to suggest an equivalent build on a newer AMD platform.

Is this a better way to go Tony?

 

[TonyCarter]

I'm sure I did a very similar config a few weeks back and the 4070Ti Super was not over £900 (more like £750)...so this is about £150 more than I was expecting it to be.

Adding in either the 7900XTX / 4080 Super would add about £150 / £250 to the build.

Case
CORSAIR 4000D AIRFLOW TEMPERED GLASS GAMING CASE - much better case for airflow
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Eight Core CPU (4.2GHz-5.0GHz/104MB w/3D V-CACHE/AM5) - the current daddy of gaming CPUS, and uses less than 1/2 the power of the i7 doing so
Motherboard
ASUS® TUF GAMING B650-PLUS WIFI (AM5, DDR5, PCIe 4.0, Wi-Fi 6) - full-size ATX motherboard, with more USB 3.2gen 2 ports, extra m.2 slot, better audio
Memory (RAM)
32GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR5 6000MHz (2 x 16GB) - much faster RAM (leaving about 10% performance on the table with 4800Mhz)
Graphics Card
16GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 4070 Ti SUPER - HDMI, DP, LHR - good option for ultrawide 1440p
Graphics Card Support Bracket
NONE (BRACKET INCLUDED AS STANDARD ON 4070 Ti / RX 7700 XT AND ABOVE)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
512GB SOLIDIGM P44 PRO GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 7000MB/sR, 4700MB/sW) - very fast, known brand, excellent endurance m.2 - but just for Windows, Apps, Games Launchers only, to keep it running at it's optimum
1st M.2 SSD Drive
2TB SOLIDIGM P41+ GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 4125MB/sR, 3325MB/sW) - fast secondary drive for game installs (wouldn't recommend loading/running modern games from the HDD in your original) - but could add in a HDD if you want something for media/document storage
Power Supply
CORSAIR 1000W RMx SERIES™ - MODULAR 80 PLUS GOLD, ULTRA QUIET - a good level of PSU with room for a GPU upgrade or two, but not overkill - could possibly go down to an 850W
Power Cable
1 x 1.5 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead, 1.0mm Core)
Processor Cooling
CORSAIR iCUE H100i ELITE CAPELLIX XT RGB High Performance CPU Cooler - not strictly necessary for this CPU, but the better air-coolers are out of stock
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
ONBOARD 2.5Gbe LAN PORT
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 11 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Microsoft® Edge
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 5 to 7 working days
Price: £2,295.00 including VAT and Delivery
Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/amd-am5-pc/z6JZ4DdcSN/

 

[TonyCarter]

Is this a better way to go Tony?

View attachment 40975

Sorry, was just configuring something and didn't see this was posted.

The 8700G is pointless unless you're going to use it for running basic games without a GPU. The 7700 would be a better value / faster option.

Greater than 6000Mhz RAM is not worth it unless you're going for overclocking, as it's diminishing returns after the 6000MHz sweet spot.

The PCS cases are not the best, as they are made to a budget and usually use budget fans/RGB controls. Same goes for their coolers.

The primary m.2 SSD should be a very fast one, and I'm not sure of your need for the large HDD.

You definitely don't want Norton anywhere near the PC - not even if you intend to remove it immediately. I wouldn't even have it installed in the first place.

My suggested build is above, but there are a couple of areas that could be trimmed if needed (CPU to 7700 & PSU to RM850) to save £150.

 

[Papalazarou]

I'm sure I did a very similar config a few weeks back and the 4070Ti Super was not over £900 (more like £750)...so this is about £150 more than I was expecting it to be.

Adding in either the 7900XTX / 4080 Super would add about £150 / £250 to the build.

Case
CORSAIR 4000D AIRFLOW TEMPERED GLASS GAMING CASE - much better case for airflow
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Eight Core CPU (4.2GHz-5.0GHz/104MB w/3D V-CACHE/AM5) - the current daddy of gaming CPUS, and uses less than 1/2 the power of the i7 doing so
Motherboard
ASUS® TUF GAMING B650-PLUS WIFI (AM5, DDR5, PCIe 4.0, Wi-Fi 6) - full-size ATX motherboard, with more USB 3.2gen 2 ports, extra m.2 slot, better audio
Memory (RAM)
32GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR5 6000MHz (2 x 16GB) - much faster RAM (leaving about 10% performance on the table with 4800Mhz)
Graphics Card
16GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 4070 Ti SUPER - HDMI, DP, LHR - good option for ultrawide 1440p
Graphics Card Support Bracket
NONE (BRACKET INCLUDED AS STANDARD ON 4070 Ti / RX 7700 XT AND ABOVE)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
512GB SOLIDIGM P44 PRO GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 7000MB/sR, 4700MB/sW) - very fast, known brand, excellent endurance m.2 - but just for Windows, Apps, Games Launchers only, to keep it running at it's optimum
1st M.2 SSD Drive
2TB SOLIDIGM P41+ GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 4125MB/sR, 3325MB/sW) - fast secondary drive for game installs (wouldn't recommend loading/running modern games from the HDD in your original) - but could add in a HDD if you want something for media/document storage
Power Supply
CORSAIR 1000W RMx SERIES™ - MODULAR 80 PLUS GOLD, ULTRA QUIET - a good level of PSU with room for a GPU upgrade or two, but not overkill - could possibly go down to an 850W
Power Cable
1 x 1.5 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead, 1.0mm Core)
Processor Cooling
CORSAIR iCUE H100i ELITE CAPELLIX XT RGB High Performance CPU Cooler - not strictly necessary for this CPU, but the better air-coolers are out of stock
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
ONBOARD 2.5Gbe LAN PORT
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 11 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Microsoft® Edge
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 5 to 7 working days
Price: £2,295.00 including VAT and Delivery
Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/amd-am5-pc/z6JZ4DdcSN/

Thank you for this Tony, I really appreciate your effort, I noticed on the other build I had a 12 core CPU on the Intel build so should I look at a 12 core AMD processor too, or should 8 core be fine? You said it's the "daddy" of gaming CPUs so I assume that would be best, but thought I'd mention it.

Regarding the 4070 Ti Super, do you think I should save the money there, instead of going for the 4080 Super or the 7900 XTX from AMD (which seems to consume quite a lot more power than the 4080/4070), I found a video comparing the 4080 Super and the 4070 Ti Super and the difference in frames was only about 13% and for £247 more, it's not worth it IMO.

I was going to go for a non SSD HDD for my D Drive, to save money, and any games that require an SSD (like Baldurs Gate 3) I would install on the C drive, do you not recommend this then?

Jamie.

 

[TonyCarter]

Thank you for this Tony, I really appreciate your effort, I noticed on the other build I had a 12 core CPU on the Intel build so should I look at a 12 core AMD processor too, or should 8 core be fine? You said it's the "daddy" of gaming CPUs so I assume that would be best, but thought I'd mention it.

Regarding the 4070 Ti Super, do you think I should save the money there, instead of going for the 4080 Super or the 7900 XTX from AMD (which seems to consume quite a lot more power than the 4080/4070), I found a video comparing the 4080 Super and the 4070 Ti Super and the difference in frames was only about 13% and for £247 more, it's not worth it IMO.

Jamie.

The Intel CPU use a big/little core layout (8 performance / 12 efficiency)...and all the difference between 12th and 14th gen i7s have been to add more efficiency cores.

Only 8 of them in an i7 are the performance ones (the same as the 7700/7800 AMD CPU)...and the efficiency ones will never get used in high performance workloads (assuming a game/app can even use them).

They were put in so that Intel could claim low base power consumption figures, when everyone knows they'll rarely be running in those low-energy modes.

That's why the equivalent AMD CPU used 2-3 times less power for the same workload - which means less heat and less cost to run. So if you were worrying about an extra £100/year between an Nvidia GPU and AMD GPU, then you've got to worry about the same sort of cost for the CPU power usage.

If the build was mainly for media creation PC (video, photo, audio editing) that could use all available cores then we would probably suggest a higher core count AMD CPU (rather than the x3D version) or a 14700K with a better cooler (14900K is pointless as it just add more efficiency cores, uses more power and creates more heat).

 

[Papalazarou]

The Intel CPU use a big/little core layout (8 performance / 12 efficiency)...and all the difference between 12th and 14th gen i7s have been to add more efficiency cores.

Only 8 of them in an i7 are the performance ones (the same as the 7700/7800 AMD CPU)...and the efficiency ones will never get used in high performance workloads (assuming a game/app can even use them).

They were put in so that Intel could claim low base power consumption figures, when everyone knows they'll rarely be running in those low-energy modes.

That's why the equivalent AMD CPU used 2-3 times less power for the same workload - which means less heat and less cost to run. So if you were worrying about an extra £100/year between an Nvidia GPU and AMD GPU, then you've got to worry about the same sort of cost for the CPU power usage.

Good to know, thank you again. Ignore my question about the HDD as I would rather have 2tb SSD, and buying the 4tb HDD is about the same price, and I don't need that much storage (it's how the PC Specialist guy built it), and if I ever do, I'll buy a NAS

 

[SpyderTracks]

Intels are DOA since 10th gen.

They’re literally un coolable and melting the cores, I think Intel are going to have to face facts and recall a load even after massively crippling voltages. It’s affecting i7s also

Avoid Intel at any cost

Intel’s Core i9 CPUs are still having some serious issues - but Intel insists it’s your motherboard’s fault

The blame game

www.techradar.com

12th gen were no better, the chips bent under the heat and pressure so cooling was further ineffective. The solution is to use a modular bracket to prevent the chip warping and Intel explicitly said doing so will void any warranty

Intel play down Alder Lake CPU bending, “strongly recommend against” socket mods

Intel has addressed user reports of bending 12th Gen Alder Lake CPUs, saying it can happen but isn't harmful to the hardware.

www.rockpapershotgun.com

 

[SpyderTracks]

There's an in depth thread on it here: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/threads/intel-cpus-crashing-in-games.96599/#post-739570

 

[Papalazarou]

The Intel CPU use a big/little core layout (8 performance / 12 efficiency)...and all the difference between 12th and 14th gen i7s have been to add more efficiency cores.

Only 8 of them in an i7 are the performance ones (the same as the 7700/7800 AMD CPU)...and the efficiency ones will never get used in high performance workloads (assuming a game/app can even use them).

They were put in so that Intel could claim low base power consumption figures, when everyone knows they'll rarely be running in those low-energy modes.

That's why the equivalent AMD CPU used 2-3 times less power for the same workload - which means less heat and less cost to run. So if you were worrying about an extra £100/year between an Nvidia GPU and AMD GPU, then you've got to worry about the same sort of cost for the CPU power usage.

If the build was mainly for media creation PC (video, photo, audio editing) that could use all available cores then we would probably suggest a higher core count AMD CPU (rather than the x3D version) or a 14700K with a better cooler (14900K is pointless as it just add more efficiency cores, uses more power and creates more heat).

Talking about audio editing, I do sometimes like to use Ableton Live Suite 9, but that is definitely secondary and I would like to build this machine as more of a games focused machine. I am not doing any sort of serious music production, it's a hobby, and so I don't mind not having the machine built specifically for that purpose.

1 thing Tony, when I went to save the quote, I got this message:

You have selected a 1000W power supply, but based on our calculations you actually only need a 750W power supply. We have calculated your specification to require around 650W of power including a 20% allowance. Although it is not a mandatory requirement to select a lower wattage power supply, doing so will save you money and the last thing we'd like to do is over charge you!

So I assume I am OK to downgrade this to the 750w RMe PSU?

Jamie.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Audio isn't good on intel, the best advice is to disable the ECores entirely otherwise you tend to get major latency issues as soon as a process hits them. ie, loads of pops and clicks and even stuttering.

 

[Papalazarou]

Audio isn't good on intel, the best advice is to disable the ECores entirely otherwise you tend to get major latency issues as soon as a process hits them. ie, loads of pops and clicks and even stuttering.

Thank you Spyder, I have actually found that exact issue with popping and stuttering etc on my current PC, with an Intel CPU, I am going with Tony's build, with a couple of tweaks, so thank you for both your input, it's been appreciated

 

[SpyderTracks]

Thank you Spyder, I have actually found that exact issue with popping and stuttering etc on my current PC, with an Intel CPU, I am going with Tony's build, with a couple of tweaks, so thank you for both your input, it's been appreciated

No matter what build you go for, with regards to audio, there are little tweaks you can make to optimise windows

You may find some of these helpful once you've got your build

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207355205-Optimising-Windows-for-Audio

Optimizing Your Computer for Audio - Windows 10

Why would I need to optimize Windows 10? If your computer's audio has: Pops Clicks Audio Dropouts Distorted Audio Noise High CPU usage PC Optimization Guide for Windows 10 Welcome to the Window...

support.presonus.com

PC Optimization Guide for Windows 10 - SweetCare

In this article, we will go through several optimizing tips for Windows 10 to enhance your experience when working with DAWs such as Pro Tools.

www.sweetwater.com

You'll notice most of these are for windows 10, it's very much the same in windows 11. If you struggle to find anything, the search bar on windows desktop is now extremely functional and actually works, so just type the setting or setting group into search and it should come up.

 

[brigil]

Talking about audio editing, I do sometimes like to use Ableton Live Suite 9, but that is definitely secondary and I would like to build this machine as more of a games focused machine. I am not doing any sort of serious music production, it's a hobby, and so I don't mind not having the machine built specifically for that purpose.

1 thing Tony, when I went to save the quote, I got this message:

You have selected a 1000W power supply, but based on our calculations you actually only need a 750W power supply. We have calculated your specification to require around 650W of power including a 20% allowance. Although it is not a mandatory requirement to select a lower wattage power supply, doing so will save you money and the last thing we'd like to do is over charge you!

So I assume I am OK to downgrade this to the 750w RMe PSU?

Jamie.

Don’t downgrade the power supply PCS don’t account for spikes in power use, and as I understand it it’s hard to upgrade it. 1000W should avoid that and allow some room for upgrade.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Don’t downgrade the power supply PCS don’t account for spikes in power use, and as I understand it it’s hard to upgrade it. 1000W should avoid that and allow some room for upgrade.

Yes, this is 100% correct, apologies, missed that, you want the 1000W to cover not only now but future upgrades too.

 

[Papalazarou]

Thank you both!

The only thing I need to decide now is what to do about the graphics card. I was umming and erring between the 4080 Super and the AMD 7900 XTX, then I saw how much power the Radeon consumes and opted for the 4080, then I spoke with you guys, who told me my spec was all wrong and pointed me in the right direction, so now I definitely cant afford the 4080, and so I looked at the 4070Ti Super, which isn't too far off the 4080 Super, considering the amount more you pay for the 4080, but also the same could be said when comparing the 4070Ti Super with the older 4070 Super, so now I really don't know which way to go.

What do you guys reckon please?