Defiance 3 ordered

[aarpri972]

Hey all,

So I've been wanting to order a custom built pc/laptop from pc specalist as well.. well somewhere else (being aware competitor mentioning is forbidden which is fair enough) for many years now (poor funds/inconsistent funds holding me back). I chose PC specialist for two reasons, the first is that i wanted a laptop and pc specialist are the only site I've found that offer customisation for laptops to the degree that they do. Secondly it's the range of parts and laptops available from you guys that really sold me.

You have such a huge and price varying range of laptops as well as parts that no matter what one could want you guys seem to have it. oh and there's a third reason PCS gets such great testimonals and reviews that I'd be foolish to ignore them for getting exactly what i want.

Onwards to the laptop it's self, now i've found my vendor check, i've got my budget 1500 pounds check, i've got a range of laptops check, sweet i can get a 970m check.

Now here i am having picked out 4 specs all with 9 series cards, i'm wandering around, browsing the forums on PCS and boom guess what my apple cart gets upset and say hello to the announcement from nivida regarding the 1000 series cards.... simply put now i was stuck. I had this burning question do i wait or what ? because benchmarks say the 1060 blows everything prior to it out of the water, like a heavy battle cruiser from the empire (star wars reference). i waited only due to needing my next pay and there we have it, luke skywalker flys down the pipe hole and destroys the deathstar. or in rl cases PCS advertise 1060/70/80 pascal cards :tt1:

it's love at first sight, like peter Parker and mary jane, superman and Louis lane, Thor and Jane.

Pay day comes and now begins the trial's and tribuations of deciding between the Defiance 3 or Octane 3. Simply put the Octane 3 is like the mona lisa and well the definace f35 fighter jet.

The chassis on the octane is a work of fine art, it's superb and if i could make love to a laptop this would be my mating partner . The defiance on the other hand is a mean, steel, sharped edge, fighting machine. It doesn't care about looks so much that it know's it's going to mess things up and take care of business and it know's that come the end of day it'll fight tooth and nail for every inch of fps it needs.

After a long debate , price and the fact the defiance is a fighter jet of supreme computing technology and can hold it's own among st even the desktop master race. I decided on the defiance. with my budget being set at 1500 unfortunately i couldn't choose that shiny new ultra explosive payload option known as the 1070. but settle for it's grittier cousin but no less capable 1060. below are my specs for my new piece of computing glory ^^

Chassis & Display
Defiance Series: 17.3" Matte Full HD IPS LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 Quad Core Processor 6700HQ (2.6GHz, 3.5GHz Turbo)
Memory (RAM)
16GB HyperX IMPACT 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (2 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1060 - 6.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1, G-SYNC
1st Hard Disk
750GB WD BLACK 2.5" WD7500BPKX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 16MB CACHE (7200 rpm)
M.2 SSD Drive
240GB KINGSTON SSDNow M.2 2280 G2, SATA 6Gb/s (550MB/R, 330MB/W)
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
NOT REQUIRED
Memory Card Reader
Integrated 6 in 1 Card Reader (SD /Mini SD/ SDHC / SDXC / MMC / RSMMC)
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card
Intel 2 Channel High Def. Audio + MIC/Headphone + SoundBlaster X-Fi MB3
Wireless/Wired Networking
GIGABIT LAN & KILLER™ WIRELESS-AC 1535 M.2 GAMING 802.11AC + BLUETOOTH 4.1


Let me know what you think and well i'm in pre-production as of writing this and im sure i'll give a full review when i receive my new laptop ^^.

 

[keynes]

With £1500 you should be able to get the gtx 1070. By lowering the ram to 8gb and dropping the ssd it should be within your budget l, those can be easily added in the future

 

[aarpri972]

With £1500 you should be able to get the gtx 1070. By lowering the ram to 8gb and dropping the ssd it should be within your budget l, those can be easily added in the future

In Theory yes but for my needs currently the 1060 is more than adequate and from my understanding the 1070 should just be a straight component swap. and even if it's not I've reviewed the 1060 bench marks and for 1080p high settings it averages 40-60 fps on pretty much everything. must games will run at 30-40 fps on ultra bar one or two that are quite demanding. correct me if i'm remembering incorrectly though.

Edit: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Nvidia...-1080-SLI-GTX-1070-and-GTX-1060.171566.0.html

further to this, one of the reasons for the ssd is one of the games i play most is very poorly optimised and loads into new zones almost every shot. this is where the ssd would out perform the stand hdd. most games though you load once and your done.

 

[keynes]

It is not just a straight swap. By the time you require an upgrade the gtx 1070 would have reached end of life and you will struggle to source a mobile version which is likely to be 2nd hand and without warranty. The gtx 1070 will help your laptop last longer if you are not just looking at your current requirements but future game releases at high/ultra settings. Adding ram and an ssd is straight forward and more cost effective (disposing a used gtx 1060?)

 

[aarpri972]

It is not just a straight swap. By the time you require an upgrade the gtx 1070 would have reached end of life and you will struggle to source a mobile version which is likely to be 2nd hand and without warranty. The gtx 1070 will help your laptop last longer if you are not just looking at your current requirements but future game releases at high/ultra settings. Adding ram and an ssd is straight forward and more cost effective (disposing a used gtx 1060?)

I do see your point, i just can't afford the additional cost in swapping it out as swapping to the gtx 1070 comes in at over 1500 not by much but at this stage it's beyond my budget having taken care of various other expenses.

 

[keynes]

Unless you are adding delivery outside of the UK the laptop below is under £1500

Chassis & Display
Defiance Series: 17.3" Matte Full HD IPS LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 Quad Core Processor 6700HQ (2.6GHz, 3.5GHz Turbo)
Memory (RAM)
8GB HyperX IMPACT 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1070 - 8.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1, G-SYNC
Memory - Hard Disk
500GB SERIAL ATA II 2.5" HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (5,400rpm)
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
NOT REQUIRED
Memory Card Reader
Integrated 6 in 1 Card Reader (SD /Mini SD/ SDHC / SDXC / MMC / RSMMC)
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
Intel 2 Channel High Def. Audio + MIC/Headphone + SoundBlaster X-Fi MB3
Bluetooth & Wireless
GIGABIT LAN & KILLER™ WIRELESS-AC 1535 M.2 GAMING 802.11AC + BLUETOOTH 4.1
USB Options
4 x USB 3.0 PORTS AS STANDARD
Battery
Defiance Series 4 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (60WH)
Power Lead & Adaptor
1 x UK Power Lead & 180W AC Adaptor
Keyboard Language
DEFIANCE SERIES RGB BACKLIT UK KEYBOARD
Operating System
Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence (£89)
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365
Anti-Virus
BullGuard™ Internet Security - Free 90 Day License inc. Gamer Mode
Browser
Microsoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)
Notebook Mouse
INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
Webcam
INTEGRATED 2.0 MEGAPIXEL WEBCAM
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour) (£5)
Dead Pixel Guarantee
1 Year Dead Pixel Guarantee Inc. Labour & Carriage Costs (£19)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 7 to 9 working days
Quantity
1

Price: £1,484.00 including VAT and delivery.

Unique URL to re-configure: http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/quotes/defianceIII-17/4UN3SxRzHf/

 

[aarpri972]

interesting as if i amend my order to that spec it still wants to charge me additional costs. most be something to do with wanting to change it etc. but that's why i can't afford to change it.

As i said earlier i do see your point about further future proofing with the 1070 but in all honesty what i have currently ordered is more than good enough going forward. Yes you are right it's life span will shorten quicker than say a 1070 but compared to what i have currently (gen 1 13'' alienware I5 cpu, 5 series gpu, ancient piece of kit was won free and passed off when my baby brother got his desktop which was an improvement on my own laptop).

I'm not fussed about having to drop my settings down to high from ultra or even to medium tbh. and i suspect this probably has a lifespan of 2 years at least if not three-four.

 

[rav007]

Are you use the 1070 can be swapped? I thought it was soldered onto the defiance's motherboard? I will be getting the GTX 1060 myself when I see some reviews of the Defiance III performance and temps. As the 1080p screen and the GTX 1060 just make the perfect match. Higher resolution on a 15.6in monitor and I won't see much difference, and it ruins my day to day windows use as the font sizes and scaling is already quite small on at 1080p on windows.

EDIT: You should get a few years out of it, I am still able to play new games on my 3 year old 765m, even the badly ported ones work on low to medium. In part I expected worse performance going forward from my laptop because maxwell was such a step up within months of getting my laptop (800m series released very quickly) and then the 900m series. However, it seems to have held its own so far.

I think the main point here though is this isn't a 1060m, its a 1060. Meaning it will become obsolete when the desktop 1060 does. Putting that into context, there are still configurators online offering the desktop GTX 760 as an option for gaming builds 3-4 years on..

Finally I think going for the 1060 is wise from a cost to performance as well as lifespan. People will argue that the GTX 1070 will give you more and they are correct in terms of performance, but nVidia's technology works by architecture which is lifespan. Today it's about DX12 and VR-readiness. When Volta is released (hopefully no sooner than 2018) there will be further technology, VR may not work out, DX13 may be the big thing. Tech is evolving very quickly so the day the 1060 becomes obsolete, so does the 1070 and the 1080 as a family. This is how I look at it anyway.

 

[aarpri972]

Are you use the 1070 can be swapped? I thought it was soldered onto the defiance's motherboard? I will be getting the GTX 1060 myself when I see some reviews of the Defiance III performance and temps. As the 1080p screen and the GTX 1060 just make the perfect match. Higher resolution on a 15.6in monitor and I won't see much difference, and it ruins my day to day windows use as the font sizes and scaling is already quite small on at 1080p on windows.

No i'm not sure, it is an assumption based on the fact these are not technically mobile gpus but locked down desktop gpus. to clarify I am assuming the gpu connects like a normal gpu would and is not soldered to the motherboard. I have not had this confirmed nor have i asked.

i know for a fact that the CPU is most likely soldered down as it's a mobile cpu not a desktop cpu like you would see in say the octane III

 

[Rakk]

interesting as if i amend my order to that spec it still wants to charge me additional costs. most be something to do with wanting to change it etc. but that's why i can't afford to change it.

If the machine is already in building (or later in the line) then yes there is a fee to change the build, if it's still in pre-production there should be no fee afaik (as in the only price difference should be the difference in cost of the components)
If it's more than what you were expecting, it's often cos something hasn't been removed or changed to what you were planning on changing it too (and yes the 'Been there, done that' comment applies ).
Also the exchange rate between the Dollar and Pound (which can change often) can affect it - when I click on keynes link it comes up as £1485.

 

[aarpri972]

If the machine is already in building (or later in the line) then yes there is a fee to change the build, if it's still in pre-production there should be no fee afaik (as in the only price difference should be the difference in cost of the components)
If it's more than what you were expecting, it's often cos something hasn't been removed or changed to what you were planning on changing it too (and yes the 'Been there, done that' comment applies ).
Also the exchange rate between the Dollar and Pound (which can change often) can affect it - when I click on keynes link it comes up as £1485.

i want to say your right but there's definitely some form off fee for changing it at pre-production phase as well as processing (cost to change was the same at both stages a flat £187 without changing any parts of my current build bar the gpu). Once i change everything to keynes spec I've got an excess of about £50 to pay which tbh is why i can't do it lol. bills have been paid, laptop paid via fiance ^^. So unfortunately for me the 1070 was out of my budget from the off to get all of what i wanted. So i went with a 1060 based on benchmarks for it

 

[rav007]

No i'm not sure, it is an assumption based on the fact these are not technically mobile gpus but locked down desktop gpus. to clarify I am assuming the gpu connects like a normal gpu would and is not soldered to the motherboard. I have not had this confirmed nor have i asked.

i know for a fact that the CPU is most likely soldered down as it's a mobile cpu not a desktop cpu like you would see in say the octane III

I know the defiance II GPU was soldered down, see images here: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Clevo-P651SE-Schenker-XMG-P505-Barebones-Notebook-Review.127978.0.html. Also mobile CPUs aren't always soldered down, my i7 4700mq isn't for example, and my 765m is an MXM card in my laptop which pre-dates the defiance series. However, my laptop is a fatty like the Octane, and internally looks quite similar to the Octane too. I think they were soldered into the defiance because it basically cuts down 5mm in thickness due to the MXM mount being non-existent.

Also I added an edit to my previous post if of interest :turned:

 

[aarpri972]

I know the defiance II GPU was soldered down, see images here: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Clevo-P651SE-Schenker-XMG-P505-Barebones-Notebook-Review.127978.0.html. Also mobile CPUs aren't always soldered down, my i7 4700mq isn't for example, and my 765m is an MXM card in my laptop which pre-dates the defiance series. However, my laptop is a fatty like the Octane, and internally looks quite similar to the Octane too. I think they were soldered into the defiance because it basically cuts down 5mm in thickness due to the MXM mount being non-existent.

Also I added an edit to my previous post if of interest :turned:

oh i was under the impression they were pretty much always soldered down due to the connection type but that's good to know.

i've seen your previous edit and here are my thoughts :

for the length of play i pretty much figured i'd get at least 2 years technically I've gotten 4 out of my 5 series on low settings lol. and yes exactly it's a downgraded desktop gpu, to my knowledge nvidia just locked some of the cores to bring down the power and clock speeds for the laptop version. and by all reports the 1060 laptop version is with 5-15% of it's desktop version.

i agree with you on the lifespan and design front. you can see that clearly if you look at the 9 and 10 series. i mean damn the gtx 1060 out performs the 980m and rivals the 980 desktop gpu. that's huge gaming power in a laptop for lower cost and power consumption's.

but yep the 1070 and even the 1080 are far more powerful cards if you've got the budget to get them, i didn't otherwise i would have gotten at least a 1070 if i went with the defiance. on the otherhand if i had the budget for an octane i properly would have gone all out with a I7 6700/k and a 1070/80 gpu.

 

[moheli]

Theoretically, wouldn't a soldered CPU and GPU be more efficient in terms of longevity and cooling? At least until they encounter error of course, in which case they'd be impossible to replace. But the main turn-off for this laptop is the amount of heat complaints it gets. Read the "Temperature section" of the review linked by rav007.

 

[aarpri972]

Theoretically, wouldn't a soldered CPU and GPU be more efficient in terms of longevity and cooling? At least until they encounter error of course, in which case they'd be impossible to replace. But the main turn-off for this laptop is the amount of heat complaints it gets. Read the "Temperature section" of the review linked by rav007.

but that's the defiance II, surely the III uses a different chassis to house the 10 series cards?

Edit: These are also maxwell gpus and 4th gen I7. these temps could be totally different with the 6th gen and 10 series versions.

 

[rav007]

...and by all reports the 1060 laptop version is with 5-15% of it's desktop version.

I believe the performance difference is literally just the clock speed difference. The 1060 in laptops will be clocked down, you may be able to overclock it back up to similar to desktop performance.

They are trying to put the 1060 into very thin gaming laptops, much thinner than the Defiance III with inferior cooling. Should that be the case, that would probably be why they have essentially downclocked all laptop-installed 1060's to the same "minimum" specs. The GPU Boost speeds are higher than base desktop clock speeds though if I remember correctly. And the better the cooling in the laptop, the more room for overclocking you will have, within reason. I would speculate the dual fan cooling in a defiance and its slightly thicker frame than those super-thin gaming laptops would give some room to overclock. But we shall see.

Theoretically, wouldn't a soldered CPU be better in terms of longevity and cooling?

Not sure if there's a correlation to be honest. I think soldering down components is more from a production savings point of view by the manufacturer as its easier to automate soldering components onto a PCB than to have people manually seat components in place and screw them down. I think longevity and cooling are down to the way they are used. Maxing it out and leaving games on 24/7 is probably the biggest factor that affects longevity. As for cooling, definitely the overall design of the heatsink and heat dissipation methods. These short heat-sinks with elbowed copper tubes and copper/aluminium fins are quite effective in general at removing heat, given coppers high thermal conductivity and aluminiums high heat dissipation rate.

 

[Oussebon]

I think the thing with soldering and CPU temps and longevity is where the die is soldered to the IHS, not when the CPU is soldered to the mobo.

http://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/the_truth_about_cpu_soldering/1

i.e. It's a different kind of soldering that has the impact on temps, overclocking, etc If that's what made you ask, anyway.