Chances of current pc specialist laptops working flawlessly with Linux in the future

[karthik.upadhya]

Hello! I got a Defiance II 14" almost two weeks back and despite trying everything I know and crawling through numerous web pages, I still have not managed to iron out some of the graphics issues.

I am contemplating returning the laptop and looking for an alternative, but honestly, I love this laptop and pc specialists service. So is there any chance that these laptops would in the future run Linux without any issues? This laptop would be with me for a better part of a decade and I wouldn't mind putting up with some minor issues now, if there is hope for the future. I would greatly appreciate any opinion on this.

PS: does anyone have any idea how companies like system76 and zareason provide Linux support? They seem to be selling the same brand and model of laptops, which makes me wonder what they do different.

 

[ubuysa]

You might try posting this in the Linux forum. PCS supply laptops that support Windows, AFAIK running any other operating system is not officially supported.

 

[Stephen M]

I have two PCS laptops, a four year old Voyager and an Octane about a year old and have few problems with them, I think it may depend which Linux Distro you are using. With Ububtu the Xorg drivers are no good for Nvidia GPUs but it is a simple fix, go into system settings and drivers and switch from the Xord to the Nvidia driver, them reboot. I usually install after choosing "nomodeset" as that seems to help as well.
My next laptop will be arriving early November and I will post a review and any Linux issues then.

 

[karthik.upadhya]

I decided to keep my laptop and am hoping Nvidia will solve some of the sync issues in the future. Nvidia seems to be doing some work for linux support now, and hopefully the muxless laptops pc specialist sells will get some decent linux support in the future.

Thanks for your suggestion Stephen. Do post a review about your new laptop. I would love to read it.

 

[Wozza63]

A bit out of date now, but I had no issues installing Kubuntu and Mint on my Cosmos II, alongside a Windows 8.1 installation. Chances are, you will be fine, but it is not guaranteed by PCS.

And on the subject of Nvidia improving support, I suspect that's related to Steam OS even if it's current usage stats are unknown (Steam hardware survey doesn't pop up for Big Picture Mode users).

 

[karthik.upadhya]

I do agree that pcs will not support Linux. But I am confident that the issues I'm facing will be sorted out in the future. The main reason for the problems is the poor support for Nvidia Optimus technology. Moreover, unlike other laptops that have been reviewed in this forum, my laptop is muxless and the latest Nvidia drivers offer only preliminary support for muxless Optimus laptops. It will take some time for all the other components of the OS such as the kernel and Xorg/Wayland to evolve to support this new technology, so till then, I'll have to live with the minor issues.

 

[_Rob_]

The Clevo P670RS-G, aka Defiance III, is being sold in a far off foreign land with Elementary OS (https://elementary.io/), installed...

I have just ordered one from PC specialist (after ~3 years of prevaricating), so I am not advocating a competitor.

 

[Wozza63]

The Clevo P670RS-G, aka Defiance III, is being sold in a far off foreign land with Elementary OS (https://elementary.io/), installed...

I have just ordered one from PC specialist (after ~3 years of prevaricating), so I am not advocating a competitor.

That OS looks pretty cool, I'm seriously considering moving to Linux by 2020 as my main OS, once Windows 7 support is gone. I'll probably still dual boot with 10 just so all my old games are still playable.

 

[Stephen M]

There is a new distro which may be interesting: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=reactos

I have not had time to try it yet and it is still in its infancy but it looks an interesting project and could be good for anyone migrating from Windows.

 

[Wozza63]

Think Ubuntu is still the place to go first for anyone leaving Windows.

I also came to the realisation that the biggest strength of Linux is also it's biggest weakness. The huge number of distros is great for choice, but it means that you miss out on features whichever one you go with.

 

[MichaelJones]

Got a Cosmos V a few weeks ago. Installed Linux Mint 18 (Sarah) on it. Works very well. Linux Mint had drivers for the NVIDIA (once I was able to make the first boot-up, needing to use a 'nomodeset' option). Sound, volume up/down function keys, screen brightness, suspend, ... , most function keys I tested work. (I don't think hibernate works.) Even works with a USB TV receiver. When needing to use iTunes, I installed Virtual Box, and ran Win 7 as a VM. Works surprisingly well for iTunes. Not sure how well it would work as an alternative to dual boot with Win7.

Initially I was slightly concerned about the 'no official linux support', but I think that's partly PCS not wanting to have to extend resources to support a slightly niche segment of the market.

Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu, so the two are very similar.

 

[Wozza63]

Got a Cosmos V a few weeks ago. Installed Linux Mint 18 (Sarah) on it. Works very well. Linux Mint had drivers for the NVIDIA (once I was able to make the first boot-up, needing to use a 'nomodeset' option). Sound, volume up/down function keys, screen brightness, suspend, ... , most function keys I tested work. (I don't think hibernate works.) Even works with a USB TV receiver. When needing to use iTunes, I installed Virtual Box, and ran Win 7 as a VM. Works surprisingly well for iTunes. Not sure how well it would work as an alternative to dual boot with Win7.

Initially I was slightly concerned about the 'no official linux support', but I think that's partly PCS not wanting to have to extend resources to support a slightly niche segment of the market.

Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu, so the two are very similar.

Most companies don't officially support Linux to save their own butts. It is a very varied OS with a tonne of different distros used by so few people. So it's near impossible to test their hardware thoroughly on 100s of distros. If they said they supported Linux and someone on some unknown distro had an issue then PCS could be to blame.

That said, I'd like to see PCS offer some kind of official support for Linux. Even if it were a couple of specific distros. I do think PCS have some kind of relationship with Microsoft, not sure how that would be affected.

 

[Mnemonic]

I agree with karthik.upadhya. It would be nice if PCS gave some level of Linux support. Yes, it's a very niche market, but if PCS offered support, who knows, it might grow here in the UK. System76 is a company that sell Defiance II laptops (i.e. rebranded Clevo laptops) in the US with Ubuntu pre-installed. I'm not sure how well they're doing, but they've been in business for a number of years now. I understand the US market is something like 6 times the size of the UK market, but it wouldn't cost PCSpecialist too much to hire a single Linux specialist (it also wouldn't be difficult to train existing staff on how to install Linux). They wouldn't have to support all Linux distros, just support the most popular, as System76 do.

The biggest problem with getting Linux to work on modern laptops is the switchable graphics (Optimus, or whatever it's called). Before I moved in to games development on Linux, I used to always purchase laptops with Intel GPUs only (mostly Lenovo ThinkPads because of their reliability and compatibility with Linux). I decided to take a chance with the Defiance II because I knew that System76 were selling them with Ubuntu pre-installed, and I'm really glad I did! This is by far the best laptop I've ever owned, and it was reasonably priced too (for what you get). The Defiance II has been a much better workhorse than any of the ThinkPads I have owned - the keyboard is much better, the screen is so much better, the build quality is awesome, and I have a much higher spec machine for much less money.

If I do a clean install (Ubuntu 16.10) in the near future, I'll make sure I write a how-to guide in this forum. I'll be sure to specifically mention why I install things the way I do (i.e. the method I use is to ensure there's no tearing when I'm using either the Intel GPU or the nVidia GPU).

 

[Stephen M]

Most companies have some sort of "relationship" with Microsoft and it can be a little awkward for them if they promote other systems. I hope PCS will be become more Linux friendly, even if it is just toning down the warning a bit as I feel it is a bit over the top, although Wozza is correct and they have to do it to save their own butts.
It is certainly in the interest of PCS to promote Linux as it could help their own sales, a major reason I was able to afford an Octane with two WDs and an m2, along with an i7 and 16GB RAM was the reason I was not going to have to pay out for any software. We all have a budget and for me I prefer to pay for the things I really need and have to pay for, ie the hardware. I can do all my desktop publishing work, plus video and music projects with open source freeware.
I cannot comment on gaming as i rarely game but for music, video and photo work Linux is superb and that is certainly an area where PCS could consider promoting machines with a Linux distro pre-installed, even if they just went for a few of the main ones, Ubuntu, Mint etc and a couple of versions, Ubuntu studio or the likes, the low latency of the studio distros is a great help for music makers.

 

[Lum]

The Defiance II is a Skylake laptop, and Skylake support is pretty abysmal unless you're running at least v4.5 of the Linux kernel (v4.6 preferred). I think the latest Ubuntu (16.10, Yakkety Sax) that came out in November moved to a 4.8 kernel so should work (if it's configured previously) but when you posted this thread they were on 4.4 which does not work.

I did get Linux Mint 17.3 (which is basically Ubuntu 16.04 with extras) running quite successfully on my Optimus VII which is also Skylake, but lower spec than yours, I wrote a guide here which should apply fairly well to yours if Yakkety doesn't. But if you're not comfortable with building your own kernel, my guide will be unhelpful, but here you go: http://blog.lum.uk/post/139964799019/linux-mint-kde-173-rosa-on-the-clevo-n150rd

 

[Tony1044]

Actually I'd say for anyone leaving Windows, Mint is the way to go.

It's one of the more Windows-esque builds in my admittedly limited experience, though I do personally have a soft sport for CentOS

 

[Stephen M]

Zorin (https://zorinos.com/) is also quite a good one for those migrating from Windows, although it is now only free for the basic version, they have started charging for the complete system. I have not tried it lately as I am not willing to pay for a system I do not need, although at $19 it is considerably cheaper than Windows. For anyone looking for a new system it is probably worth trying Zorin Core as it is free.

 

[Tony1044]

Wow...that is truly awful.

It's like stepping back in time 20 years to everything that was bad about Windows NT4.0 with everything that was bad about early Linux distros.

Seriously...it's a Windows NT4 interface!

There is a new distro which may be interesting: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=reactos

I have not had time to try it yet and it is still in its infancy but it looks an interesting project and could be good for anyone migrating from Windows.

 

[Stephen M]

Agreed, I have had a look at it since I posted and it is, at the moment, garbage. I think they have released it far too early, I will accept it not being perfect and at an early but not even wifi is not simple to get going on it and there is not much, if anything to make me want to go back to it, probably only curiosity will get me to have another look in a year or so. I have tried it on two different machines and it was a mess on both.

 

[Tony1044]

I am really not sure what has driven them to go for the NT4/95 era look and feel either. All that did was bring back memories of how far things progressed from a user perspective.

Also no way, in the very brief look I had before killing it, to add drivers manually, run up a terminal etc.

Incomplete is one thing...that shouldn't ever have been started!

Agreed, I have had a look at it since I posted and it is, at the moment, garbage. I think they have released it far too early, I will accept it not being perfect and at an early but not even wifi is not simple to get going on it and there is not much, if anything to make me want to go back to it, probably only curiosity will get me to have another look in a year or so. I have tried it on two different machines and it was a mess on both.