Advice on new build for Plex Media Server

[micmal]

Hi All

I currently run my 8 year old PCS PC with an older i7-4790K processor and 1050Ti i added later on.

I have recently started adding 4K movies to my Plex Server and although within my home Plex works well, outside the home the older processor is failing on the 4K titles. I know other reasons are at play for that, such as clients and internet speeds but i also know it never had an issue on the 1080p titles. I am on full fiber at home so no issues on my side!

I am contempalting upgrading to a new machine with either these specs:

Case
BE QUIET! DARK BASE PRO 900 REV. 2 FULL TOWER GAMING CASE
Overclocked CPU
Overclocked Intel® Core™ i9-10980XE 18 Core (3.00GHz @ up to 4.7GHz)
Motherboard
ASUS® PRIME X299-A II: ATX, USB 3.2, SATA 6 GB/s, ARGB Ready
Memory (RAM)
16GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 2400MHz (4 x 4GB)
Graphics Card
8GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2080 SUPER - HDMI, 3x DP GeForce - RTX VR Ready!
1st Storage Drive
500GB Samsung 860 EVO 2.5" SSD, SATA 6Gb/s (up to 550MB/sR | 520MB/sW)
Power Supply
CORSAIR 750W TXm SERIES™ SEMI-MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
Noctua NH-U14S Ultra Quiet Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking
ASUS PCE-AX58BT Wi-Fi 6 (802.11ax) 2400Mbps/5GHz, 600Mbps/2.4GHz
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 6 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]

Or perhaps these Specs:

Case
BE QUIET! DARK BASE PRO 900 REV. 2 FULL TOWER GAMING CASE
Overclocked CPU
Overclocked AMD Threadripper 3970X 32 Core (3.7GHz @ up to 4.3GHz)
Motherboard
ASUS® PRIME TRX40-PRO (DDR4, 6Gb/s, CrossFireX/SLI) - ARGB Ready!
Memory (RAM)
8GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 2400MHz (2 x 4GB)
Graphics Card
8GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2060 SUPER - HDMI, DP - VR Ready!
1st Storage Drive
256GB PCS 2.5" SSD, SATA 6 Gb (500MB/R, 400MB/W)
Power Supply
CORSAIR 750W RM SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
CoolerMaster MasterLiquid ML360 RGB TR4 High Performance Liquid Cooler
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking
WIRELESS 802.11N 300Mbps/2.4GHz PCI-E CARD
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]

Note that the Intel option is significantly cheaper by about £400.

I am not a gamer or anything and this PC will be primarily for Plex duties for live transcoding as well as Transcoding for syncing to kids tablets etc.

I am also not a super experienced PC builder so any silly choices...please let me know.

For reference this was my original 8 year old build with my addition of a 1050 Ti and upgraded 430W PSU

Case	AeroCool DS Cube Red Edition Window Mini-ITX
Processor (CPU)	Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Processor i7-4790k (4.0GHz) 8MB Cache
Motherboard	ASUS® H97I-PLUS: Mini-ITX, LG1150, USB 3.0, SATA 6GBs
Memory (RAM)	16GB KINGSTON DUAL-DDR3 1600MHz (2 x 8GB) Change to: 16GB HyperX FURY DUAL-DDR3 1600MHz (2 x 8GB)
Graphics Card	INTEGRATED GRAPHICS ACCELERATOR (GPU)
2nd Graphics Card	NONE
1st Storage Drive	240GB KINGSTON HYPERX 3K SSD, SATA 6 Gb/s (upto 555MB/sR | 510MB/sW)

 

[SpyderTracks]

What are your fiber speeds for upload? Obviously download doesn’t matter in this regard.

If it’s working fine internally then it should work fine externally so long as the settings within Plex are ok.

Are you doing any transcoding? Is it hardware accelerated? What bandwidth settings do you have set on the Plex server for remote users? I think this defaults to 9mb which obviously wouldn’t be enough for 4k. You’d need about 45Mb/s upload to cope with 4k.

What device is the receiver? Does it definitely have 4k capabilities for Plex? Note if it’s a TV based app then it won’t, you’d need a dedicated receiver like AppleTV for remote streams.

Those 2 builds are worlds apart, the AMD build is literally twice the PC which is why it’s more expensive.

 

[Tony1044]

What Spyder said.

But it's also worth bearing in mind that Transcoding is a seriously heavy-lifting operation on 4k.

Some good information from Plex is here: https://support.plex.tv/articles/201774043-what-kind-of-cpu-do-i-need-for-my-server/

And the hardware-acclerated streaming capabilities (requires a premium Plex pass) is here: https://support.plex.tv/articles/115002178853-using-hardware-accelerated-streaming/

 

[Scott]

As per all of the above.

My guess is it's a bandwidth limitation of your external upload speed. 4k will have a higher bitrate than 1080p when streaming.

If you limit the bitrate internally, to a similar level as you would require for streaming, and find no issue with the internal play on the same device that you are trying externally..... then it's definitely your upload speed.

 

[micmal]

What are your fiber speeds for upload? Obviously download doesn’t matter in this regard.

If it’s working fine internally then it should work fine externally so long as the settings within Plex are ok.

Are you doing any transcoding? Is it hardware accelerated? What bandwidth settings do you have set on the Plex server for remote users? I think this defaults to 9mb which obviously wouldn’t be enough for 4k. You’d need about 45Mb/s upload to cope with 4k.

What device is the receiver? Does it definitely have 4k capabilities for Plex? Note if it’s a TV based app then it won’t, you’d need a dedicated receiver like AppleTV for remote streams.

Those 2 builds are worlds apart, the AMD build is literally twice the PC which is why it’s more expensive.

Hi @SpyderTracks and thanks for your reply.

In answer to your questions:

I am on full fiber at home so i am at 300Mbps down and 50 Mbps up so i should be good on my end.
Internally i play my 4K media in original quality via a 2019 Nvidia Shield and through a Dolby Atmos Yamaha receiver (5.1 setup) to a 4K LG OLED TV. No issues there and i am amazed by the 4K difference. Interestingly the Roku Streaming Stick+ buffered a bit but i rarely us that for Plex anyway.

So for me internally there is no need for Transcoding if we stick to a 5.1 soundtrack. Transcoding mostly happens for a single external remote user as it is going over the Internet to his 'normal' fiber broadband of about 45Mbps down. Mostly i need the power for the transcode for converting files for Kids tablets and my own when i travel for work...if i ever do again :-(

Currently there is no remote quality limit on Plex - i have set it to 'Original' (No Limit). For remote users and tablets, 4K remote viewing is not necessary - i will be happy with a 1080p decent quality transcode. In fact on his Samsung OLED TV Plex player the 1080p medium setting seemed to be OK with no buffering. He does not have an AppleTV or other dedicated streamers and sound is from a Yamaha soundbar - went for a single cable approach.

It is also unlikely i will need a large number of streams at the same time but i am trying to future proof as much as possible as my kids are getting to the age now where they will be able to watch at will rather than me preparing it for them and i would like to keep the configuration above for a good 10 years if possible. - current set up is 8 years and counting.

In summary, i need a processor with some muscle and a decent but not necessarily top range Nvidia GPU. In Home there is no need for transcoding and remotely, 1080p transcodes will be fine but i doubt i will need more than 2 at a time and even then, rarely. Mostly i would like a fast processor to transcode for offline tablet syncing.

My experience has always been with Intel GPUs and i thing the Intel choice above is more than capable but looking at CPU Passmarks...the threadripper is literally double - does it matter on my scenario?

Also at the moment, i have this idea of keeping the 4K rips uncoverted but in the past i have made heavy use of DVDFab to convert them to more manageable sizes and bitrates. That is also an option in the future as a single 2 hour film yesterday was 51GB so this is not very sustainable as far as HDD space goes. May need to convert some to at least 50% of that size but still maintaining a decent 20K+ bitrate as well well as down converting sound to 5.1 - that is what i have anyway. Storage is handled by an aging Synology DS413j which is maxed out with 4x4TB HDDs and i am contemplating swapping it for a more recent model. I could add 8TB discs in there but considering the server is now 8 years old, i am tempted to add a new DS420j or similar. Synology is purely for storage.

Sorry for long winded answer!

 

[micmal]

What Spyder said.

But it's also worth bearing in mind that Transcoding is a seriously heavy-lifting operation on 4k.

Some good information from Plex is here: https://support.plex.tv/articles/201774043-what-kind-of-cpu-do-i-need-for-my-server/

And the hardware-acclerated streaming capabilities (requires a premium Plex pass) is here: https://support.plex.tv/articles/115002178853-using-hardware-accelerated-streaming/

@Tony1044 I did look at the links you suggested and looked up the passmarks Plex suggests hence the suggestion for the Threadripper but i would rather opt for the Intel based on my experience and earlier reply on this thread while saving some money.

My current processor and GPU meet and exceed the requirements listed by PLEX and for my use it is fine. The thinking behind the upgrade is to accommodate extreme cases and remote users - i am very nice to my family

Thanks!

 

[micmal]

As per all of the above.

My guess is it's a bandwidth limitation of your external upload speed. 4k will have a higher bitrate than 1080p when streaming.

If you limit the bitrate internally, to a similar level as you would require for streaming, and find no issue with the internal play on the same device that you are trying externally..... then it's definitely your upload speed.

My upload is at 50Mbps as i am on Fiber to the Home. There are however some Nest Cameras (1080p 2 of them constantly uploading at all times and 5 of them streaming when not at home.)

I could limit the bitrate for external users to say 10Mbps 1080p or perhaps 8Mbps. Would that make a difference for remote streaming?

 

[Scott]

My upload is at 50Mbps as i am on Fiber to the Home. There are however some Nest Cameras (1080p 2 of them constantly uploading at all times and 5 of them streaming when not at home.)

I could limit the bitrate for external users to say 10Mbps 1080p or perhaps 8Mbps. Would that make a difference for remote streaming?

What we need to ascertain is the restriction of your current build so that we can advise on the best approach for a solution.

Our guess at the moment is that it wouldn't make any odds which system you had as the limitation is the bandwidth. As much as 50mb upload is fantastic, it's only around 6MB/s without taking into account any other upstream demands. A high quality 4K video will make a lot of use of this I imagine, additionally there are delays with the stream as well (depending on the buffer size at the remote end).

The reason I had said to limit the bandwidth and enable the transcoding when viewing internally is to prove that it's the PC that's the limitation. If it struggles to transcode realtime to a device on your LAN then it's clearly the bottleneck and you need something with a bit more grunt. If it plays absolutely fine then that suggests it's your WAN that's the limitation.

 

[micmal]

What we need to ascertain is the restriction of your current build so that we can advise on the best approach for a solution.

Our guess at the moment is that it wouldn't make any odds which system you had as the limitation is the bandwidth. As much as 50mb upload is fantastic, it's only around 6MB/s without taking into account any other upstream demands. A high quality 4K video will make a lot of use of this I imagine, additionally there are delays with the stream as well (depending on the buffer size at the remote end).

The reason I had said to limit the bandwidth and enable the transcoding when viewing internally is to prove that it's the PC that's the limitation. If it struggles to transcode realtime to a device on your LAN then it's clearly the bottleneck and you need something with a bit more grunt. If it plays absolutely fine then that suggests it's your WAN that's the limitation.

Thanks @Scott

I will limit the bitrate to 10Mbps 1080p on the Plex side and see how i get on. However, based on the fact that to-date it has been set to No limit internally and remotely...and i have seen buffering on my roku stick, i will hazard a guess it will struggle...but hey. I am happy to upgrade if required, but happier to Not upgrade if i can keep the current set up for another year or 2.

Be back shortly!

 

[micmal]

@Scott Just did a quick test on a 4K film i had and i adjusted the playback settings on my Shield TV to 1080P Medium ar 12Mbps and then lowered even further to 8Mbps. In both cases the audio was being transcoded and i had a quite a few pauses. Not buffering, just pausing. If i switch back to Original Quality and i still received some pauses but maybe not as many this time.

My internal network speed should be adequate as a lot is happening over wireless.

I attached some screenshots here - let me know if you need anything else and thanks for your help!

 

[Scott]

Looking at those screenshots your CPU isn't even breathing hard so it doesn't look like the system is the issue?

 

[micmal]

@Scott Not sure what else it could be then? The GPU was hovering at around 20-25% as well while the 12Mbps was happening. I am still getting some pauses

Everything is managed by a Synology RT2600AC router with 2 Synology MR2200AC extenders. The synology server is plugged in directly into the main router but due to location in the house i am using one of the MR2200AC points to link the Plex Machine and another MR2200AC to link the gadgets in the living room - Wireless from router to extension and then from extension via ethernet hub to NVidia and TV for example.

Could be the older NAS i use for storage - a synology DS413j? Or maybe the local SSD on the Plex machine (240GB KINGSTON HYPERX 3K SSD, SATA 6 Gb/s (upto 555MB/sR | 510MB/sW))

I am yet to try reducing the quality of the 4K rip with DVDFab, maybe that will help? Maybe a new GPU to match my current motherboard an ASUS® H97I-PLUS: Mini-ITX, LG1150, USB 3.0, SATA 6GBs ?

I attached another screenshot of my Task Manager during transcode

 

[SpyderTracks]

@Scott Not sure what else it could be then? The GPU was hovering at around 20-25% as well while the 12Mbps was happening. I am still getting some pauses

Everything is managed by a Synology RT2600AC router with 2 Synology MR2200AC extenders. The synology server is plugged in directly into the main router but due to location in the house i am using one of the MR2200AC points to link the Plex Machine and another MR2200AC to link the gadgets in the living room - Wireless from router to extension and then from extension via ethernet hub to NVidia and TV for example.

Could be the older NAS i use for storage - a synology DS413j? Or maybe the local SSD on the Plex machine (240GB KINGSTON HYPERX 3K SSD, SATA 6 Gb/s (upto 555MB/sR | 510MB/sW))

I am yet to try reducing the quality of the 4K rip with DVDFab, maybe that will help? Maybe a new GPU to match my current motherboard an ASUS® H97I-PLUS: Mini-ITX, LG1150, USB 3.0, SATA 6GBs ?

I attached another screenshot of my Task Manager during transcodeView attachment 17553View attachment 17553

It’s nothing to do with the system, neither the GPU or CPU are anywhere near close to struggling.
I have a Plex setup on an old i7 build in my spec and have no trouble streaming remotely or internally so I do think it’s more an issue elsewhere.

 

[Scott]

It's unlikely that it's the issue but I would definitely replace the "240GB KINGSTON HYPERX 3K SSD ". Awful drives, I had one fail on me without any warning at all and after I had a look around and found it was a common knowledge <insert expletive> drive.

As above though, nothing on your system is pressed. The only thing I can think to check is the connection speed of your network. I notice that it's sitting at 48Mb/s when running. If it's capped at 54Mb/s then that would likely be the limitation.

I tend to use INSSIDER to assess my network strengths and connection speeds.

As a side note I use PLEX and also previously accessed it remotely either on my phone or via an Amazon Firestick. I have had various niggles with it over the years but it's normally down to the actual transcoding element and the limitations of this.

 

[micmal]

Thanks @Scott and @SpyderTracks

A bit tricky to change the SSD as that is my main boot drive! Plus touch wood - it has been ok for the last 8 years and at some point i had linux on it as well.

I checked on my Synology router and i disabled the Traffic Control option though i dont think that was the issue as the settings were rather high anyway. See attached screenshot. Still have a few pauses on Original Quality so not sure what the issue is.

The 2 screenshots are from my router settings and i just tested the connection between the wifi points.

Anything else i can check on?

 

[Scott]

With regards to the pauses.... were they less frequent with the policy disabled?

Something that may be of note... that router looks VERY slow to me. I see tfers of 80MB/s over Wifi.

 

[micmal]

Hi @Scott

I never had any problem with the router and extension points before - had them for 3 years now almost and they have been great. I lived in the States when i first bought the main router and it covered a 3500 ft2 home and now we live in a house half that size! Only reason for the extensions was that the new house here was not wired for Ethernet whereas the USA one was.

Here is another screenshot of a 1080p film playing now at 11.2Mbps bit rate over Plex in Original quality with no conversion. No Pauses what soever.

I am beggining to think i should give up on 4K - :-(

Here are the router specs https://www.synology.com/en-uk/products/RT2600ac and the mesh wifi option: https://www.synology.com/en-uk/products/MR2200ac

 

[Scott]

Notice that unconverted is using far less bandwidth though.

I'm 99% sure that bandwidth is your issue. Not noticing any issues or shortcomings before doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Like I said, internal wireless transfers for me are 70+MB (I stress the capital B here, this is basically 600Mb/s). If your setup is running 54Mb/s for some reason (some configuration somewhere) then it completely explains the limitations that you are noticing.

I don't think you should give up, I just think you should forget what you believe you know about your current setup and explore all options to maximising it's throughput. It definitely looks to me that your local networking setup is the problem rather than the PC.

 

[micmal]

Notice that unconverted is using far less bandwidth though.

I'm 99% sure that bandwidth is your issue. Not noticing any issues or shortcomings before doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Like I said, internal wireless transfers for me are 70+MB (I stress the capital B here, this is basically 600Mb/s). If your setup is running 54Mb/s for some reason (some configuration somewhere) then it completely explains the limitations that you are noticing.

I don't think you should give up, I just think you should forget what you believe you know about your current setup and explore all options to maximising it's throughput. It definitely looks to me that your local networking setup is the problem rather than the PC.

I do not disagree at all @Scott and i am super grateful for the help. I just dont know what else i can look into. Replacing my router (s) will certainly be cheaper than getting a new PC!

Maybe i should just pick up one of the latest Asus ones as i had great experiences with them in the past and test it out - we can always return it i suppose!

The Synology is highly praised however but maybe that is for general traffic and not 4K. Only other thing i can think of is any restrictions on my Ethernet port on the Plex box but that downloads at 300Mbps on speed tests so certainly not restricted to 100Mbps

 

[Scott]

I do not disagree at all @Scott and i am super grateful for the help. I just dont know what else i can look into. Replacing my router (s) will certainly be cheaper than getting a new PC!

Maybe i should just pick up one of the latest Asus ones as i had great experiences with them in the past and test it out - we can always return it i suppose!

The Synology is highly praised however but maybe that is for general traffic and not 4K. Only other thing i can think of is any restrictions on my Ethernet port on the Plex box but that downloads at 300Mbps on speed tests so certainly not restricted to 100Mbps

I don't think it will be the router either to be honest. I just think it's the configuration of the network, one way or another.

I don't think you need to replace any hardware to be honest.

If you look at your screenshots the bandwidth is around 15-20Mb/s when you are seeing no issues. It's up nearer 50Mb/s when you are noticing the pausing.

Basically occams razor.....

It's not the CPU
It's not the GPU
It's not the media

IMO it HAS to either be the configuration of the software (PLEX can be funny sometimes) or the configuration of the network.

Unfortunately without having actual hands on it would be insanely difficult to diagnose the route cause of the issue.

I would strongly advise you don't waste any money on any hardware at this particular time. I think you would only end up frustrated that it didn't make any odds.